HA February Auction 6 6

[tth2]

9 hours ago, Frank Mozz said:

I  am sorry when I read a post that in essence says JB art is awful and maybe people are starting to see that based on one HA auction?  

 That was me, and I like to poke fun at John Buscema because it's guaranteed to fluster so many fanboys on these Boards. 

[tth2]

4 hours ago, GreatEscape said:

but vast majority of the hottest CGC books like Hulk 181 have dropped back to earth.

They may have dropped, but they're still very expensive.  Way more expensive than one of the most common books on earth should be.

[Bronty]

15 hours ago, Carlo M said:

Ok, I get that and I am with you.  The question still is: who deems these pieces popular, or more relevant context-wise? The people who originally read those and are now 80? Or later readers, who determinde later, based on some objective parameters, that a certain run or publisher is higher quality than another?

I still think it would be interesting to know a bit more about the profile of buyers of '50s art.  Are they readers of the '80s reprints, on the spur of nostalgia, like suggested by the previous post?  Or more mature readers, who have expanded their interest area and somehow determined the quality of the content?  Knowing the profile of those buyers might tell us a bit more about the future buyers of super heroes art.

Talking about my own experience, as a Marvel-only-super-heroes-only-European-buyer,  I have recently bought one EC Weird Science Archive trade and truly enjoyed it based on the quality of what I was reading.  I could see myself exploring more these types of comics and  one day buy one piece of OA from one of those issues, and yet I would have no idea that EC was more popular than Charlton.

Well, to me it sounds like you’re starting with your conclusion (these ECs I read are good and people will want to collect them) rather than starting with your question.   

ECs have always been considered quality comics for the time, and yes people will always enjoy them.   But what price will they pay for them is the question.   One thing that has to be said about collecting is that people love recurring characters and love collecting things that are first in a long series.   ECs are all one off stories.   There are really no first appearances to speak of besides the narrators, and they only lasted a few years.    While they had great impact , they are all pretty “samey “.    One issue you pick up isn’t much different than another.   And that leads to a situation where except for frazettas and a few other exceptions , EC covers all seem to have the same ceiling.    There’s not much to set any of them apart from each other, and the same can be said for the interiors (with a few exceptions like master race etc).   By and large... you’ve got a murder story with a twist ending, every time.   Not much to set them apart.

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Bronty

[delekkerste]

15 hours ago, GreatEscape said:

Sure, high-grade AF 15s continued to soar but vast majority of the hottest CGC books like Hulk 181 have dropped back to earth.  

Hulk #181 crashed hard (9.8s went from like $25K to somewhere in the $6-9K range at their nadir, IIRC), but, are now setting record prices in all grades again. A 9.8 recently sold for $59K and change, which blasted past another recently set record in the mid-$40Ks.   

I'd say that nearly $60K for a Hulk #181 9.8 is the stupidest thing I've seen in the comic/OA hobby in 2019, except that a Werewolf by Night #32 9.8 just sold for $50K the other week.   

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by delekkerste

[Bronty]

34 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Hulk #181 crashed hard (9.8s went from like $25K to somewhere in the $6-9K range at their nadir, IIRC), but, are now setting record prices in all grades again. A 9.8 recently sold for $59K and change, which blasted past another recently set record in the mid-$40Ks.   

 

 

Looks like they were going for less than 1/3 of that 2 years ago. 

Wow, 127 9.8s (11 of them signature)

Near Mint/Mint

9.8

116

0

11

0

127

[Bronty]

I'm not as convinced its ridiculous though.   Its the most popular character of the last fifty years.

127 9.8s doesn't give me pause as there's lots of fanboys and lots of label chasers.

However, the 1000 9.4 and 9.6 copies is more concerning as you wonder how high 9.8s can get when 9.6 and 9.4 are so plentiful.

Still, I'm inclined to say that one day you'll be posting about 9.8s crossing six figures (after all, its only double a 9.8 WWBN 32  ).

Edited March 12, 2019 by Bronty

[batman_fan]

12 hours ago, tth2 said:

 That was me, and I like to poke fun at John Buscema because it's guaranteed to fluster so many fanboys on these Boards. 

[Bronty]

19 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

He's no Charles Schulz

He had his moments, but I find a lot of his work just 'competent'

There's nothing wrong with 'competent', particularly if you're the employer!   But as a fan, outside of his best moments, I find it hard to get too excited about his work and I think that's where guys like Tim are coming from.    What's there in his body of work to excite me?   Surfer 4 cover?   OK, great cover, but the pickings are pretty slim for great moments in a very long career.   There's a whole lot of work like this cover below.   Not too good, not too bad.   Nice dynamic pose on Conan.   Silly looking disco glitterball villain.  Afterthought damsel.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Bronty

[batman_fan]

23 minutes ago, Bronty said:

He's no Charles Schulz

He had his moments, but I find a lot of his work just 'competent'

There's nothing wrong with 'competent', particularly if you're the employer!   But as a fan, outside of his best moments, I find it hard to get too excited about his work and I think that's where guys like Tim are coming from.    What's there in his body of work to excite me?   Surfer 4 cover?   OK, great cover, but the pickings are pretty slim for great moments in a very long career.   There's a whole lot of work like this cover below.   Not too good, not too bad.   Nice dynamic pose on Conan.   Silly looking disco glitterball villain.  Afterthought damsel.

The Cabal got to you !

I bet I could go through his volume of work and find literally over 100 ultra classic pieces. His work spans so many titles and at least he understood human anatomy which is a lot more than you can say about other artists 

[tth2]

1 hour ago, delekkerste said:

Hulk #181 crashed hard (9.8s went from like $25K to somewhere in the $6-9K range at their nadir, IIRC), but, are now setting record prices in all grades again. A 9.8 recently sold for $59K and change, which blasted past another recently set record in the mid-$40Ks.   

I'd say that nearly $60K for a Hulk #181 9.8 is the stupidest thing I've seen in the comic/OA hobby in 2019, except that a Werewolf by Night #32 9.8 just sold for $50K the other week.   

 

[tth2]

41 minutes ago, Bronty said:

He had his moments, but I find a lot of his work just 'competent'

There's nothing wrong with 'competent', particularly if you're the employer!   But as a fan, outside of his best moments, I find it hard to get too excited about his work and I think that's where guys like Tim are coming from.    What's there in his body of work to excite me?   

 Exactly.  I've never said JB is bad.  I just don't think he's great, but even saying that seems to send all the Marvel fanboys into a tizzy.

There's nothing wrong with being perfectly adequate.  The world needs workhorses, they can't all be Secretariat.

[batman_fan]

9 minutes ago, tth2 said:

 Exactly.  I've never said JB is bad.  I just don't think he's great, but even saying that seems to send all the Marvel fanboys into a tizzy.

There's nothing wrong with being perfectly adequate.  The world needs workhorses, they can't all be Secretariat.

I am stil in the ultra fanboy category. He has so much incredible work spanning so many titles. Comparing him to folks like Frank Miller, Jim Lee, Brian Bolland, etc. Buscema stands out as far superior. 

[comix4fun]

2 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

I am stil in the ultra fanboy category. He has so much incredible work spanning so many titles. Comparing him to folks like Frank Miller, Jim Lee, Brian Bolland, etc. Buscema stands out as far superior. 

 

Whoa there.....no need to start a scrap.

[buttock]

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

The Cabal got to you !

I bet I could go through his volume of work and find literally over 100 ultra classic pieces. His work spans so many titles and at least he understood human anatomy which is a lot more than you can say about other artists 

I think the volume of his work is part of the issue.  Who else has so much art out there to choose from?  

[jjonahjameson11]

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

I am stil in the ultra fanboy category. He has so much incredible work spanning so many titles. Comparing him to folks like Frank Miller, Jim Lee, Brian Bolland, etc. Buscema stands out as far superior. 

Oh, wait...you’re serious?

[glendgold]

Google translation key for those of you who don't speak this language.  "Stands out as far superior" = "I like him more than than" 

 

[Peter L]

On 3/10/2019 at 7:00 AM, vodou said:

Sorry to read of your woes Peter L.

I am always a friend to the hobby, even if few would call me their friend

My offer stands:

 

I missed your offer.  What is your offer?

I am really blessed to have finally gotten a piece I wanted for over 10 years at the last HA auction and that I was able to outbid the other people who wanted it.  But there is less money out there because of the taxes and fees.  If I really wanted the other pieces I would find the money to buy them.  But I think these lesser buys are going to be overlooked with the taxes.

[Ironmandrd]

I'm in the JB fan club but I agree that the fact that he was so prolific in the end tends to hurt him in the eyes of some.  But there are still a large number of very memorable, well done covers, splashes and well-executed panel pages.  And I'd take even middling work by JB over a ton of other artists.  On the flipside, as no longer a new collector, I try to only collect what I view as the most nostalgic or highest quality JB I can find (and then mostly limited to Avengers and some miscellaneous non-Avengers pieces).

[Bronty]

I’d be willing to bet though that even amongst the members of the JB fan club , even among those people that have his in their top five, that he’s nobody’s (or almost nobody’s ) actual favorite .   

Thats the point being made.   Maybe you think he’s average, maybe you think he’s good, maybe you think he’s kinda bad.    But nobody thinks he is the GREATEST unless they’re blind

he just doesn’t elicit that kind of reaction.   There are probably lesser artists with bigger fan bases.   That’s a function of his work taking few to no risks IMO.   Safe, adequate, competent , yes.   Breakthroughs, innovation, unique style... no.

Good, competent craftsman, for better, or for worse.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Bronty

[delekkerste]

5 minutes ago, Bronty said:

I’d be willing to bet though that even amongst the members of the JB fan club , even among those people that have his in their top five, that he’s nobody’s (or almost nobody’s ) actual favorite .   

Thats the point being made.   Maybe you think he’s average, maybe you think he’s good, maybe you think he’s kinda bad.    But nobody thinks he is the GREATEST unless they’re blind

he just doesn’t elicit that kind of reaction.   There are probably lesser artists with bigger fan bases.   That’s a function of his work taking few to no risks IMO.   Safe, adequate, competent , yes.   Breakthroughs, innovation, unique style... no.

Good, competent craftsman, for better, or for worse.

I can think of at least a few JB4Lyfe fanbois right off the top of my head...I suspect you'll get at least one to chime in here soon...