low grading 0

[marvinjoan]

My copy of Batman #18 was graded a .5...same with my Journey into Mystery issue as well.

The review stated it was yellow pages, tape on cover and cover detached.

The cover is not detached though it has rusted staples.

I went to an event and found a copy of Batman 18 without a cover rated 1.0 with yellowed pages and one similar to mine as a 1.5.

This is the fourth time for this type of grading which has devalued my collection and a lose of faith in the CGC grading.

Their remedy is to send everything in and pay to reinspect.

Something is wrong and they control the market

Any ideas on how to move forward as I have two hundred more comics to grade.

See pic..bad shot...sorry

Edited November 30, 2018 by marvinjoan
left off name of issue

[1950's war comics]

what else do the graders notes say ?

[marvinjoan]

It states  "yellow pages, tape on cover and cover detached". if the cover was detached, they detached it. However the real issue is the lowest grade for a comic which has the cover, is n tact, all the pages, pages in good shape with not complete yellowing and a rating lower than others in the same condition. I also submitted another Golden Age comic in the same condition which came back rated a "Reconditioned". Again, inconsistent.However, they are the only game in town ....as my collection continues to be rated lower as well as my values. One day, a major collector will file a suit and maybe the palying field will be leveled. PS...I did call them and they stated to pay for a revaluation. Makes no sense. The folks at Heritage are much more helpful.

Thank for responding and have a great holiday season

Edited December 1, 2018 by marvinjoan
spelling erros...

[marvelmaniac]

I do not use CGC, my books are all raw, however...

#1 - Grading is Totally Subjective...

One see's what they want to see when looking at/grading books which makes it very difficult to be honest when grading your own books, you do not always see or accept what is really there.

#2 - You did not show full pics front and back of the book.

For the book to receive such a low grade there must be something missing, that you did not see in the Grader Notes or did not notice in the book itself.

A GD 2.0 can have a completely detached cover and rusted staples however an accumulation of major defects such as "Brittle Pages" Pieces Missing, etc will all lead to a lower grade.

You stated the pages were "Yellow", are the pages Brittle and falling apart at the touch?, that to me brings a lower grade book to a PR 0.5.

 

Here are the guidelines for PR 0.5, what defects does your book have that you have not disclosed?

0.5 POOR (PR): 
Sufficiently degraded to the point where there is little or no collector value; easily identified by a complete absence of eye appeal. Brittle almost to the point of turning to dust with a touch, and usually incomplete. Extreme fading may render the cover almost indiscernible. May have extremely severe stains, mildew or heavy cover abrasion to the point that some cover inks are indistinct/absent. Covers may be detached with large chunks missing. Can have extremely ragged edges and extensive creasing. Corners are rounded or virtually absent. Covers may have been defaced with paints, varnishes, glues, oil, indelible markers or dyes, and may have suffered heavy water damage. Can also have extensive amateur repairs such as laminated covers. Extreme spine roll present; can have extremely ragged spines or a complete, book-length split. Staples can be missing or show extreme rust and discoloration. Extensive staple tears and stress lines may be present, as well as extreme rust migration. Paper exhibits moderate to severe brittleness (where the comic book literally falls apart when examined). Extreme acidic odor may be present. Extensive interior tears. Multiple pages, including the centerfold, may be missing that affect readability. Coupons may be cut.

[Foley]

1 hour ago, marvinjoan said:

It states  "yellow pages, tape on cover and cover detached". if the cover was detached, they detached it. However the real issue is the lowest grade for a comic which has the cover, is n tact, all the pages, pages in good shape with not complete yellowing and a rating lower than others in the same condition. I also submitted another Golden Age comic in the same condition which came back rated a "Reconditioned". Again, inconsistent.However, they are the only game in town ....as my collection continues to be rated lower as well as my values. One day, a major collector will file a suit and maybe the palying field will be leveled. PS...I did call them and they stated to pay for a revaluation. Makes no sense. The folks at Heritage are much more helpful.

Thank for responding and have a great holiday season

If the cover is only attached by tape, CGC treats it as a detached cover. See the link to CGC's stance on tape someone posted for you in one of the other threads you started about the same issue (one thread would have been enough).

Terms like "yellow pages" and "reconditioned" lead me to believe you may not be too familiar with grading and the mistake may be on your end.

1 hour ago, marvinjoan said:

However, they are the only game in town

No they're not. The best, but not the only.

[SBRobin]

1 hour ago, marvinjoan said:

One day, a major collector will file a suit and maybe the palying field will be leveled.

File a suit over what? This will never happen.

I think it is much more likely the books were graded correctly and your expectations were too high, especially since you stated one of the books came back as "reconditioned," which is not a term CGC uses. If the cover was detached, I think it is likely you didn't notice it or you didn't package the book correctly in shipping, especially since you made the exact same claim against CGC in January. You are the only one I know that has claimed CGC detached your cover, and claimed this multiple times. You also claimed in January CGC was off a full 2 grade points. I can tell you that grading is definitely subjective and some may disagree with CGC's grades, but I don't think I ever see a legitimate claim that their grading is off an entire 2 points. 

If you posted full high resolution pictures of the issue we could tell you more. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by SBRobin

[zzutak]

17 hours ago, marvinjoan said:

I went to an event and found a copy of Batman 18 without a cover rated 1.0

Rated by whom?  Surely not CGC (or even CBCS, for that matter).  In the old days, coverless books received Universal Grades of 0.5 PR.  Now, they receive Universal Grades of NG.

Edited December 1, 2018 by zzutak

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 very low-quality image will not really allow any of us to agree with your assessment.

CGC is not the 'only game in town', and anyone suing them would be ill-prepared to legally deal with the subjective nature of third-party grading. I don't see it happening. You paid them to grade your book, they graded your book, and you simply disagree. They provided you the exact service that you paid for...

Without some HQ images, we're all at a loss of being able to agree or disagree with the grade they assessed.

[oldrover]

I’ve had books come back higher, lower, and exactly the same as what I (and others here) expected. It is what it is. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 12/1/2018 at 10:43 AM, marvelmaniac said:

"Brittle almost to the point of turning to dust with a touch..."

This killed me. 

[revat]

I didn't quite follow.  Did you buy a book previously graded by CGC and the grade dropped when you resubmitted it to CGC?

Or are you saying that other books graded by CGC look the same as yours but yours got a lower grade?

But the better question is:

Do you think that you (and/or an expert you pay to bring in) are going to be able to convince a jury or judge that (the most trusted name in comic grading having graded more than 2M books) that CGC has purposefully (or so negligently) graded a comic so incorrectly that it is ...what? Fraud? a tortuous accident?  Specifically singled  you out? Not quite consistent enough?  Are you going to break all the comics out of their cases in front of a jury or judge and have them grade it for you?  Try selling a jury on the fact that you buy comics that cost hundreds or thousands of dollars.

Especially when the pure subjectivity of comic grading is the issue at hand?  Especially with low grade comics, its super subjective.

 

In my experience, if CGC makes a mistake (which does happen), they usually (but not quite always) try to make up for it.  Make a deal with them on the Batman book - pay for the regrade, but they refund you if the cover isn't detached.  I understand being frustrated, but you can try other services or create your own.  Your complaint, while possibly warranted, sounds like "I don't always get what I want when I want in the way that I believe I deserve it."  There are definitely people who don't like CGC for whatever reason and choose not to use them, for better or worse.  Its ok to be that way.  Its up to you what you think is best for your finances.

[theCapraAegagrus]

16 minutes ago, revat said:

I didn't quite follow.  Did you buy a book previously graded by CGC and the grade dropped when you resubmitted it to CGC?

Or are you saying that other books graded by CGC look the same as yours but yours got a lower grade?

But the better question is:

Do you think that you (and/or an expert you pay to bring in) are going to be able to convince a jury or judge that (the most trusted name in comic grading having graded more than 2M books) that CGC has purposefully (or so negligently) graded a comic so incorrectly that it is ...what? Fraud? a tortuous accident?  Specifically singled  you out? Not quite consistent enough?  Are you going to break all the comics out of their cases in front of a jury or judge and have them grade it for you?  Try selling a jury on the fact that you buy comics that cost hundreds or thousands of dollars.

Especially when the pure subjectivity of comic grading is the issue at hand?  Especially with low grade comics, its super subjective.

 

In my experience, if CGC makes a mistake (which does happen), they usually (but not quite always) try to make up for it.  Make a deal with them on the Batman book - pay for the regrade, but they refund you if the cover isn't detached.  I understand being frustrated, but you can try other services or create your own.  Your complaint, while possibly warranted, sounds like "I don't always get what I want when I want in the way that I believe I deserve it."  There are definitely people who don't like CGC for whatever reason and choose not to use them, for better or worse.  Its ok to be that way.  Its up to you what you think is best for your finances.

This, but, the OP has failed to provide us with any evidence of this accusation. 1 incomplete, low-quality, image isn't providing any sort of case to the public (us) that they "under-graded" this book.

[revat]

35 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

This, but, the OP has failed to provide us with any evidence of this accusation. 1 incomplete, low-quality, image isn't providing any sort of case to the public (us) that they "under-graded" this book.

And even with better pics of this particular book, we'd really need a full sample size of deslabbed low grade books to compare.  I'm sure that CGC does make errors, and I'm sure we'd all like better recourse when we disagree with grades, but its a business, not some non-profit judging funded by nuns.  I'm sure its not in their best interest to make it easy to dispute grades either.

[oldrover]

1 hour ago, revat said:

its a business, not some non-profit judging funded by nuns.