vodou Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) This is always a fun subject and when I last remember it coming up there was something of a sense that a collector holding back a piece for ten years qualifies the piece as being black-holed (uh oh this term might just get us all in trouble with somebody somewhere!) Comic art hobby memory is incredibly short, I guess. I think Mitch might have suggested more like twenty years. He's older and wiser. I think it's ten, minimum, that's enough time for even the persistent to give up and for a new collector generation to come up and wonder where things are, things that haven't been seen for a really long time (like...ten years) and other older collectors only being able to mention remembering seeing it...somewhere about ten years ago. Thanks to Bud Plant's catalogs in the nineties, I have an interest in Orientalist art that just won't quit. Nice selection at The Met, less so at Boston MFA. So it goes. Anyway, saw this and noted: Provenance Sale: Sotheby's, New York, 30 October 1980, lot 88 Purchased at the above sale by the present owner Almost forty years. Now that's black-holed, whether anybody knew where the piece was hiding or not. If this was the one, the one for you but you were one final paddle raise short, forty years, you can die waiting for this one to come back around. Edited December 7, 2018 by vodou so many darned typos! hmendryk and gumbydarnit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, vodou said: I think it's ten, minimum, that's enough time for even the persistent to give up and for a new collector generation to come up and wonder where things are, things that haven't been seen for a really long time (like...ten years) and other older collectors only being able to mention remembering seeing it...somewhere about ten years ago. I really like this sentence. It nails it, i think. I’d like to think that after 40 years I’d gotten over it, my tastes have changed, moved on. But yeah, you’re probably right that I’d be dead by then too. Edited December 7, 2018 by Jay Olie Espy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said: I’d like to think that after 40 years I’d gotten over it, my tastes have changed, moved on. But yeah, you’re probably right that I’d be dead by then too. This is why you stretch for the pieces that are really important, to you even if not to the hobby, because backing out at the last minute due to some self-imposed 'rule' and losing could mean losing forever! Carl Elvis and John E. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCarter27 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Off topic, but if I had to pick Gerome is probably my favorite of the Orientalist camp/movement/era. His originals are smaller than you think and usually very tightly rendered. They have kind of a jewel-like quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1952 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 (edited) Vodou Still keeping hope you will share with me which flamingo comic strips you own Edited December 8, 2018 by kat123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Peter L Posted December 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 About 10 years ago there was a piece of art I really wanted. I wrote to the dealer and he said sure. I wrote later and he had sold it to someone else and I was really upset because I was giving the guy a lot of business, and I was certain I had contacted him first. Shortly after it appeared on CAF. I wrote to the owner and offered cash and a trade, much more than it was worth. He said he didn't want to sell. I thought it was odd because it didn't really match anything else in his gallery. This year I am going through CAF searches and the art is no longer posted. He still had his other art posted. I track down my old message and write to the owner and asked if he still had it and if he wanted to sell. He agreed to sell it to me. So 10 years later I finally got the piece. Other collectors wrote to me asking if they missed this for sale. I told them they didn't. I just remembered who owned it. mister_not_so_nice, alxjhnsn, Carl Elvis and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 8 hours ago, kat123 said: Vodou Still keeping hope you will share with me which flamingo comic strips you own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Peter L said: About 10 years ago there was a piece of art I really wanted. I wrote to the dealer and he said sure. I wrote later and he had sold it to someone else and I was really upset because I was giving the guy a lot of business, and I was certain I had contacted him first. Shortly after it appeared on CAF. I wrote to the owner and offered cash and a trade, much more than it was worth. He said he didn't want to sell. I thought it was odd because it didn't really match anything else in his gallery. This year I am going through CAF searches and the art is no longer posted. He still had his other art posted. I track down my old message and write to the owner and asked if he still had it and if he wanted to sell. He agreed to sell it to me. So 10 years later I finally got the piece. Other collectors wrote to me asking if they missed this for sale. I told them they didn't. I just remembered who owned it. Awesome story; congratulations on your patience paying off. Peter L 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1952 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, vodou said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister_not_so_nice Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 I don't consider myself a "Black Hole" collector*, but I have had some pages for 18+ years that if anyone were looking for them, highly unlikely with my "drekllection", They would be out of luck. Though they have been shown on CAF from time to time. *I don't fit my definition, which is someone that can buy and never has a need to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter L Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 15 hours ago, kat123 said: Soon after this movie came out, my house got a phone call from a Disney pollster. They wanted to speak to a child under a certain age. They were wondering why this movie didn't do well, and I told them why I thought it sucked. I asked them, where was the action? Why didn't you just ask kids for their input in the first place? For Christmas I was given an LP which was the movie in a condensed version like a radio show. I was mad at the world at that point. *paull* and HouseofComics.Com 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter L Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 15 hours ago, vodou said: Awesome story; congratulations on your patience paying off. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 10 hours ago, mister_not_so_nice said: *I don't fit my definition, which is someone that can buy and never has a need to sell. That's an interesting definition. How important is the word "need" to it? Some sell without the "need", from the margins (of their collection) only, are they still black hole -to you if the other 99% doesn't move for many, many years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister_not_so_nice Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, vodou said: That's an interesting definition. How important is the word "need" to it? Some sell without the "need", from the margins (of their collection) only, are they still black hole -to you if the other 99% doesn't move for many, many years? "need" is imperative to the definition. You can't have a black hole collection if you're consistently putting stuff out there for sale to fund the next 'grail' Selling based on 'want' is different than selling based on 'need'. A black hole absorbs without restraint. It's the polar opposite of the "Grail today/Sale tomorrow" "collector" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, mister_not_so_nice said: "need" is imperative to the definition. You can't have a black hole collection if you're consistently putting stuff out there for sale to fund the next 'grail' Selling based on 'want' is different than selling based on 'need'. A black hole absorbs without restraint. It's the polar opposite of the "Grail today/Sale tomorrow" "collector" No, no, I completely agree. I guess I misunderstood your previous statement. I was reading it as, in your definition, a Black Hole Collector can only and ever be buying but not selling anything for any reason ever. Very exclusionary that statement is (says Yoda lol!) I consider my collection to be Black Hole (but not forever, someday the selling will begin again, out of boredom if nothing else). I have sold occasionally, not recently (decade plus where more than one piece has left per year) and never for "need", I just did it because some things that looked good with a less experienced eye don't look as good (years) later with a more experienced eye. My feeling was, why keep that stuff moldering and unloved when somebody else could actually pedestal and enjoy it? But the selling wasn't due to "need", to finance another purchase, certainly not any of that "grail today, gone tomorrow" bs, it was more like letting that bird with the broken wing now healed back out into the wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 48 minutes ago, mister_not_so_nice said: A black hole absorbs without restraint. Oh. That hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelfan1 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) On 12/9/2018 at 12:10 AM, Peter L said: Soon after this movie came out, my house got a phone call from a Disney pollster. They wanted to speak to a child under a certain age. They were wondering why this movie didn't do well, and I told them why I thought it sucked. I asked them, where was the action? Why didn't you just ask kids for their input in the first place? For Christmas I was given an LP which was the movie in a condensed version like a radio show. I was mad at the world at that point. As a little kid - I loved this movie. Especially the robots! As a side note - many years later I watched Quentin Tarantino's Jackie Brown. The Bailbondsman guy was very likeable. At least that's how I felt - but didn't know why I felt familiar with him. More years pass by and I re-watch black Hole with my kids. Hey - the bail guy was the captain dude in Black Hole. The mystery was solved. Btw - if you haven't seen it, Jackie Brown is a worthwhile movie. The actor was Robert Forester. Edited December 10, 2018 by Panelfan1 John E. and Catwoman_Fan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor G Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 45 minutes ago, Panelfan1 said: The actor was Robert Forester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/8/2018 at 8:17 AM, vodou said: Is the Movie poster art for "The Black Hole" technically in a "Black Hole" collection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister_not_so_nice Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/8/2018 at 6:17 AM, vodou said: Why is the "T" upside down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
