Computer art value to artist vs. regular art value 0

[Rick2you2]

8 hours ago, Hekla said:

I'm very familiar with Photoshop (but I'm sure I don't use it the same way a comic creator would use it) so I can see it being beneficial if an artist draws using functions such as Layer Groups or Mask to make the colorists' job easier.

You can do that easily in Illustrator.

[Rick2you2]

5 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

John Byrne who does his work traditionally has used 3d program to create spacecrafts and would lightbox it onto bristol so no digital aspect in the final product.

I'm good with that. There is a single final product.

[stinkininkin]

11 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Great information. Interesting how DC pays more for colors than inks, but Marvel is the opposite.

I'm afraid that resource is not particularly accurate.   Not sure if only certain tier creators are reporting to this resource, but it doesn't reflect reality on ranges at Marvel and DC.  And no, I'm not going to disclose what I make on a public forum.  All that said, I love digital for laying out cover designs and being able to alter and move elements around.  But eventually everything I do winds up analog with pencil and ink and paper.  Art sales are definitely part of my business model.  I suppose I might modify that if I was doing interiors instead of covers.  A lot of interior art either won't sell or sells for very little (for non superstar creators).  Dynamic pages as well as covers and splashes of course, are another matter.  

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, stinkininkin said:

I'm afraid that resource is not particularly accurate.   Not sure if only certain tier creators are reporting to this resource, but it doesn't reflect reality on ranges at Marvel and DC.  And no, I'm not going to disclose what I make on a public forum.  All that said, I love digital for laying out cover designs and being able to alter and move elements around.  But eventually everything I do winds up analog with pencil and ink and paper.  Art sales are definitely part of my business model.  I suppose I might modify that if I was doing interiors instead of covers.  A lot of interior art either won't sell or sells for very little (for non superstar creators).  Dynamic pages as well as covers and splashes of course, are another matter.  

Without asking you what you make, and is none our business, would you know what sort of range is more realistic? 

From a techical perspective, so you basically do a rough layout on the computer and then do a detailed drawing by hand? But is the reason solely because of potential sales?

What I'm simply trying to figure out is a way to encourage production of future original comic art for sale. Any good ideas?

 

[malvin]

2 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

I'm afraid that resource is not particularly accurate.   Not sure if only certain tier creators are reporting to this resource, but it doesn't reflect reality on ranges at Marvel and DC.  And no, I'm not going to disclose what I make on a public forum.  All that said, I love digital for laying out cover designs and being able to alter and move elements around.  But eventually everything I do winds up analog with pencil and ink and paper.  Art sales are definitely part of my business model.  I suppose I might modify that if I was doing interiors instead of covers.  A lot of interior art either won't sell or sells for very little (for non superstar creators).  Dynamic pages as well as covers and splashes of course, are another matter.  

My impression from that site was that it is based on surveys.  Even if everyone enters accurate numbers, I don't see why more established creators would bother entering the info.

Malvin

[malvin]

41 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Without asking you what you make, and is none our business, would you know what sort of range is more realistic? 

From a techical perspective, so you basically do a rough layout on the computer and then do a detailed drawing by hand? But is the reason solely because of potential sales?

What I'm simply trying to figure out is a way to encourage production of future original comic art for sale. Any good ideas?

 

I think most artists have already weighed in all the factors before deciding on digital vs. pencil.  I'm not seeing how you or anyone can change the overall trend.  Unless you want to start paying 10x for all artwork, from all artists.

Malvin

[Rick2you2]

7 hours ago, malvin said:

I think most artists have already weighed in all the factors before deciding on digital vs. pencil.  I'm not seeing how you or anyone can change the overall trend.  Unless you want to start paying 10x for all artwork, from all artists.

Malvin

Maybe doing the layouts and basic images on the computer, lightboxing them onto Bristol Board and then doing a little pencilling plus inking for a final product. But I'm no artist and I don't know if that works. It does seem to me it would give the benefit of efficiency and still preserve an orignal product.

[Bird]

This ship has sailed.

 

[Rick2you2]

6 minutes ago, Bird said:

This ship has sailed.

 

They also said that about vinyl records.

[Bird]

1 minute ago, Rick2you2 said:

They also said that about vinyl records.

And it only took 30 years for them to come back!

[Rick2you2]

27 minutes ago, Bird said:

And it only took 30 years for them to come back!

No, they have always had fans. But the benefit of the medium just became better appreciated.

So, why not help it along a little here? I can live without a typical 6 panel by John Doe. But I was sad to learn this 2 page spread can never be for sale (even while I can see how using the computer would aid layout):

 

 

[Lucky Baru]

The creator makes the decision and it might change.  An example would be Jim Towe.  He did his Youngblood work digitally.  When he went over to Marvel and did Spider-Man/Deadpool he switched to pencils.

[Hekla]

10 hours ago, malvin said:

My impression from that site was that it is based on surveys.  Even if everyone enters accurate numbers, I don't see why more established creators would bother entering the info.

Malvin

That was my assumption too... that the survey was based on the average creator or creators that are in the early stages of their careers. A Super-Star creator taking the survey would skew the results higher.

[mister_not_so_nice]

2 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

No, they have always had fans. But the benefit of the medium just became better appreciated.

So, why not help it along a little here? I can live without a typical 6 panel by John Doe. But I was sad to learn this 2 page spread can never be for sale (even while I can see how using the computer would aid layout):

 

 

So, if he drew the 22 page book traditionally, instead of digitally you would have bought one DPS. And if he had a 6 or 12 issue run you may have bought one or two other pages.  I don't see how this would be to his benefit. 

Certainly there is a meme that says "Let it go, man", I just don't have time to look.

[JadeGiant]

On December 12, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Rick2you2 said:

I was disappointed to learn recently that a very nice page of artwork was not available because it was done on the computer. Since  there is an original art market, I was wondering if that is really a smart trade-off for artists to make. For example, assume a completed page earns the artist $250 (I don't know the answer to this). If done on the computer, it only takes 6 hours or $41.67 per hour. Using traditional methods, it takes 8 hours which would be $31.25 per hour. But the traditional method lets the artist sell the artwork later, so assume he or she can get $100 per page for it. That is an hourly rate of $43.75. In that case, using the computer only makes sense if there is some other value to it (flexibility in preparation, ease at fixing errors, that sort of thing). Perhaps some people here would know the answer. If it's favorable to OA collectors, I would love to pitch the point back at the artists.

I don't think you can cookie-cutter the numbers like your post as I imagine the efficiencies of digital vs traditional vary greatly from artist to artist. I would also assume the 6-8 hours were pulled from air and I would suspect that some artists are far more efficient with digital vs traditional than this. 

I get your perspective as I am a collector and don't like the trend away from traditional art but I think your view is skewed because you want the art to be available for purchase. At least that is the conclusion that I have come to personally as my early reaction was similar to yours. 

[Andahaion]

Bendis/Maleev Daredevil, dude.  Bendis/Maleev Daredevil...

[JadeGiant]

23 hours ago, Panelfan1 said:

I recently had a conversation with some collectors and I mentioned I like Mike Deodato art - but they told me he switched in recent times to all digital. His covers sell for 1-3k range -so was shocked to hear that he went all digital.  thats a huge income loss.   Especially for an established artist who clearly has no difficulty drawing traditionally.

I have had the same conversation twice recently regarding Mike Deodato's art and how much I wish he still worked traditionally. The level of detail and crispness in Mike's older, traditional style was so much more than his current works so I presume that the time invested for him is likely a lot less. It also appears that he isn't hurting for money as he does a lot of variant covers and they would sell VERY WELL if done traditionally on paper but he still opts to go digital. 

[Garf]

22 minutes ago, mister_not_so_nice said:

So, if he drew the 22 page book traditionally, instead of digitally you would have bought one DPS. And if he had a 6 or 12 issue run you may have bought one or two other pages.  I don't see how this would be to his benefit. 

Certainly there is a meme that says "Let it go, man", I just don't have time to look.

Time can be what it is all about. Time for an artist to do more than one book, time at home, time for self improvement...

I can't recall if it was this forum where I said this before but nowadays a lot artists who choose the academic route are getting tooled up to work digitally because it gives them much more choice in the workplace. Character design, scenery design, concept artist, texture artist, prop design, 2D, 3D, etc etc. I think we are going to see a lot more digital art creep in purely because of the choices it offers artists.

[JadeGiant]

On December 12, 2018 at 9:45 PM, mister_not_so_nice said:

I'm pretty sure all artists at this time are well aware of the pros & cons of each production method and have made the decision that works best for them. 

Would you change the way you approach your profession because it would make someone else happy? 

Exactly

[JadeGiant]

Didn't David Finch start to move toward digital and then came back in some part due to the lost sales on art? I have heard of a few artists that do the covers, splashes, key pages traditionally and do all other pages digitally.