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Some kind of a new record for Marvel Super-Heroes #13
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64 posts in this topic

17 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

For the people who do not like the current market are you sitting it all out and not buying or selling hot movie craze books?  There may be a couple who say they are sitting back and watching the madness but everyone I know is checking the long boxes and selling the hot books when they explode.  You can't tsk people's buying habits when you are hip deep in the profits being made by the hot books.

If I had any of that hot movie craze books to sell, I'd definitely be cashing them in.  As much as I like my collection, there's no way I'd say any book is totally, completely, 100% not for sale at any price.

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22 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

If I had any of that hot movie craze books to sell, I'd definitely be cashing them in.  As much as I like my collection, there's no way I'd say any book is totally, completely, 100% not for sale at any price.

I hear you.  I love FF Annual 6 - just a great book for so many different reasons but at the current prices my 15 copies have gone or are going to new homes.  I have much respect for those that are sitting firm and not selling but when a book explodes from $300 to $1,000 its really tough to not jump on the bandwagon and put that grand to other uses.

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2 hours ago, 1Cool said:

For the people who do not like the current market are you sitting it all out and not buying or selling hot movie craze books?  There may be a couple who say they are sitting back and watching the madness but everyone I know is checking the long boxes and selling the hot books when they explode.  You can't tsk people's buying habits when you are hip deep in the profits being made by the hot books.

They aren't sitting it out. They come on here and complain about the prices people are paying.

:preach:

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3 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

what the market will be in 10 years is relatively uncertain, what is certain is that whoever paid $31,000 for the CGC Marvel Super-heroes #13 vastly overpaid whether it was for a personal collection or for a sale down the road. Vastly overpaid when you consider what the market has been for the book and what the perceived market value will be in 10 years. You know it, I know it and so does virtually everyone else in this thread.

I will admit that I have purchased books paying at the time GPA high or even higher for my personal collection. I justify my decision in that I knew the value of the books would be more in a few years by observing market trends. The payment of $31,000 in this case is not a market trend. It does not make sense with exception to the person who made the purchase.

You have a valid argument and 2 years ago I would have 100% agreed with you however... I've been proven wrong over the last couple of years and there is no telling if that will change going forward. Case in point, FF 52. 9.8's were selling for around $15-20K for years. In Feb 2016 a non ped 9.8 sold for $84K out of nowhere, presumably on movie speculation. At the time I thought as you do now on the MSH 13, that being that is a stupid price and they will regret paying that much etc. Since then, there have been multiple sales at or above $80K for 9.8's. It's been almost 3 years and the book hasn't tanked. There have been sales in the $60K+ range as well but overall it's still selling for "stupid money". There is a pretty good comparison with MSH 13. MSH 13 is more scarce in uber grade than FF52 and prior to the Black Panther movie being a huge hit, I would have classified both BP and CM as 2nd tier characters. MSH 13 will likely remain scarce in uber grade. There is only 1 9.8 out of more than 1000 subs. It's a lot more scarce than FF 52. Would the 9.8 hit $100K? I doubt it. Could it hit what FF52 is selling for in the $80K neighborhood and keep it up? Possible. Especially if CM becomes as big a hit as the BP movie and she is a fixture in the MCU going forward.

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11 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

You have a valid argument and 2 years ago I would have 100% agreed with you however... I've been proven wrong over the last couple of years and there is no telling if that will change going forward. Case in point, FF 52. 9.8's were selling for around $15-20K for years. In Feb 2016 a non ped 9.8 sold for $84K out of nowhere, presumably on movie speculation. At the time I thought as you do now on the MSH 13, that being that is a stupid price and they will regret paying that much etc. Since then, there have been multiple sales at or above $80K for 9.8's. It's been almost 3 years and the book hasn't tanked. There have been sales in the $60K+ range as well but overall it's still selling for "stupid money". There is a pretty good comparison with MSH 13. MSH 13 is more scarce in uber grade than FF52 and prior to the Black Panther movie being a huge hit, I would have classified both BP and CM as 2nd tier characters. MSH 13 will likely remain scarce in uber grade. There is only 1 9.8 out of more than 1000 subs. It's a lot more scarce than FF 52. Would the 9.8 hit $100K? I doubt it. Could it hit what FF52 is selling for in the $80K neighborhood and keep it up? Possible. Especially if CM becomes as big a hit as the BP movie and she is a fixture in the MCU going forward.

could be.

One major difference is that MS 13 isn't the first appearance of CM.

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55 minutes ago, Mystafo said:

FF 52 isn't the best example, either.  I think BP, while still below Spidey and the Hulk, is still a MUCH more important character than Carol.  The success of the film was the icing on the cake (albeit, some very dense icing).  She wasn't the first ANYTHING.

Your opinion is being heavily influenced by recent events. 10 years ago, BP didn't belong in the same sentence as Spidey and Hulk. MUCH more important than Carol? Debatable. But her first appearance is more scarce than FF52 in uber grade by far, which you don't seem to be taking into account. And 'she wasn't the first ANYTHING"? Well, she WAS the first Carol Danvers and if the title of Captain Marvel is important, so should the actual person in the costume be important. She isn't the first character to assume a superhero persona previously wielded by someone else. 

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I think the future will show if this was a good investment depending on how the movie goes and what they do with her in the future. I wouldn’t say this is a bad purchase because you never know....10-20 years from now kids who see this movie may grow up to covet her 1st book and those kids may have deep pockets by then.

Now if the movie tanks I think this could turn out to be a terrible investment. Movie hype books can be gold but they can also drop faster than any book out there, hence the big risk.

If “far from home” stinks amazing fantasy 15 will be just fine...due to its gradual run up in price over the years and come on its Spider-Man it’s not movie hype...but captain marvel is different and high risk here as a movie hype book. 

So I wouldn’t say this was a “bad” purchase, I would say it was a “high risk” purchase. 

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57 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

Your opinion is being heavily influenced by recent events. 10 years ago, BP didn't belong in the same sentence as Spidey and Hulk. MUCH more important than Carol? Debatable. But her first appearance is more scarce than FF52 in uber grade by far, which you don't seem to be taking into account. And 'she wasn't the first ANYTHING"? Well, she WAS the first Carol Danvers and if the title of Captain Marvel is important, so should the actual person in the costume be important. She isn't the first character to assume a superhero persona previously wielded by someone else. 

Granted, on the scarcity in high grade issue...however there is nothing important or innovative enough about the character (Carol, or Ms./Capt Marvel), IMO, to keep the book at such levels once the movie comes and goes.  Not in the way FF 52 has.  Weather BP was at the popularity level of Spidey and Hulk at the time isn't really debatable, but how can the 1st appearance of a woman who was to become the titular hero (much later) compare in long term value (across all grades) to the 1st appearance of the 1st black superhero who was the hero from the get-go?  Not a "she'll be something in 9 years down the road."  

So yes, MUCH more important.  Not the 1st Captain Marvel, not the 1st female superhero, not 1st minority superhero, took forever to become a superhero...who were we talking about, again? 

Edited by Mystafo
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11 minutes ago, Mystafo said:

Granted, on the scarcity in high grade issue...however there is nothing important or innovative enough about the character (Carol, or Ms./Capt Marvel), IMO, to keep the book at such levels once the movie comes and goes.  Not in the way FF 52 has.  Weather BP was at the popularity level of Spidey and Hulk at the time isn't really debatable, but how can the 1st appearance of a woman who was to become the titular hero (much later) compare in long term value (across all grades) to the 1st appearance of the 1st black superhero who was the hero from the get-go?  Not a "she'll be something in 9 years down the road."  

So yes, MUCH more important.  Not the 1st Captain Marvel, not the 1st female superhero, not 1st minority superhero, took forever to become a superhero...who were we talking about, again? 

You are mixing arguments now. In the 70's/80's/90's, both Carol Danvers (in whatever superhero identity she was in) and BP were relatively in the same category of superhero. That being secondary level heroes that couldn't carry a title for long and were relegated to making guest appearances in other titles or team titles like the Avengers. Through today's lens, BP seems much more important but that is largely based on the success of the movie. If the movie had flopped, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So what do you think happens if the CM movie is just as big of a hit as BP? I know social issues are important today but is BP being a black superhero headlining movies going to trump CM being a female superhero headlining movies? Wonder Woman was a success for Warner in no small part because it was female led, MCU needs its own female led superhero franchise. Right now that seems to be slated to be Carol Danvers. And your opinion that BP is MUCH more important than Carol is just that... an opinion. One that is not shared by everyone and subject to change based on how well the CM movie franchise does I would imagine.

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2 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

You are mixing arguments now. In the 70's/80's/90's, both Carol Danvers (in whatever superhero identity she was in) and BP were relatively in the same category of superhero. That being secondary level heroes that couldn't carry a title for long and were relegated to making guest appearances in other titles or team titles like the Avengers. Through today's lens, BP seems much more important but that is largely based on the success of the movie. If the movie had flopped, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So what do you think happens if the CM movie is just as big of a hit as BP? I know social issues are important today but is BP being a black superhero headlining movies going to trump CM being a female superhero headlining movies? Wonder Woman was a success for Warner in no small part because it was female led, MCU needs its own female led superhero franchise. Right now that seems to be slated to be Carol Danvers. And your opinion that BP is MUCH more important than Carol is just that... an opinion. One that is not shared by everyone and subject to change based on how well the CM movie franchise does I would imagine.

Not really basing it on the movie, I personally didn't think the movie was great and I know I won't like the CM movie.  The movie is just one factor in what I believe will be the longevity of the key book's value.  The CM movie might be just as good, but I can't see it drawing the same attention as BP.  I don't see it bringing in the new interest that BP did, even if Marvel is making her the be all end all.  Wonder Woman isn't really the same thing either as the character has been a pop culture staple for many years even before the big, new movie.  But let's take into account the characters full existence...from origin to today.  Carried titles or not, who is the more recognizable name/character?  I don't personally know any comic collectors who gave a flying flip about Carol Danvers until the late 90's.  I had friends running around pretending to be BP.

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31 minutes ago, Mystafo said:

Not really basing it on the movie, I personally didn't think the movie was great and I know I won't like the CM movie.  The movie is just one factor in what I believe will be the longevity of the key book's value.  The CM movie might be just as good, but I can't see it drawing the same attention as BP.  I don't see it bringing in the new interest that BP did, even if Marvel is making her the be all end all.  Wonder Woman isn't really the same thing either as the character has been a pop culture staple for many years even before the big, new movie.  But let's take into account the characters full existence...from origin to today.  Carried titles or not, who is the more recognizable name/character?  I don't personally know any comic collectors who gave a flying flip about Carol Danvers until the late 90's.  I had friends running around pretending to be BP.

You are clearly entrenched in your position and there's no point in my arguing it. If you don't see the similarities between FF52 from 2016 and MSH13 now, there isn't much I can do about it. I can guarantee you this though, there were far more people on this board that thought FF52 would tank after that sale then people that thought it was a sustainable price and we were all wrong. Whether or not that happens with MSH13 will probably depend largely on the success of the movie but my view of the market was changed by FF52 and what it has continued to sell for in the last 3 years.

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On 12/14/2018 at 9:51 AM, mattn792 said:
On 12/14/2018 at 9:04 AM, Gotham Kid said:

31K for MSH 13 9.6 today = gargantuan butthurt tomorrow

this hobby has plenty such examples

 

In so many words - this could be 2018's Bitcoin.  Massive short term run up, followed by an equally precipitous fall.

Well, with tonight's CGC 9.6 graded copy sale of MSH 13 on CL, I guess it's a lot closer to the 2018 version of Bitcoin as opposed to the 2021 version:  :tonofbricks:

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault.asp%3FFocused%3D1%26pg%3D38%26x%3D31%26y%3D15%23Item_1462167&id=1462167&itemType=0

00061612396000110266267008.jpg

Finished up at a price of only $16,450 or about only half of the $31,111 in the CL Auction back in November of 2018.  :tonofbricks:  :tonofbricks:

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13 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, with tonight's CGC 9.6 graded copy sale of MSH 13 on CL, I guess it's a lot closer to the 2018 version of Bitcoin as opposed to the 2021 version:  :tonofbricks:

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault.asp%3FFocused%3D1%26pg%3D38%26x%3D31%26y%3D15%23Item_1462167&id=1462167&itemType=0

00061612396000110266267008.jpg

Finished up at a price of only $16,450 or about only half of the $31,111 in the CL Auction back in November of 2018.  :tonofbricks:  :tonofbricks:

A comic went down in price?!?:whatthe:

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14 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, with tonight's CGC 9.6 graded copy sale of MSH 13 on CL, I guess it's a lot closer to the 2018 version of Bitcoin as opposed to the 2021 version:  :tonofbricks:

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault.asp%3FFocused%3D1%26pg%3D38%26x%3D31%26y%3D15%23Item_1462167&id=1462167&itemType=0

00061612396000110266267008.jpg

Finished up at a price of only $16,450 or about only half of the $31,111 in the CL Auction back in November of 2018.  :tonofbricks:  :tonofbricks:

Not the end of the world. There were three separate sales of over 30k for a 9.6, all of which happened within six months of each other....the lone 9.8 (ow) copy recently sold for $31k 

The original owner auctioned this. I’m sure the meager $16,449.75 return on his 25c investment was a real disappointment 

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5 minutes ago, djpinkpanther67 said:

Not the end of the world. There were three separate sales of over 30k for a 9.6, all of which happened within six months of each other....the lone 9.8 (ow) copy recently sold for $31k 

Well, that's definitely good to know then.  (thumbsu

Would you happen to have links to the other two >$30K CGC 9.6 sales handy since I am too lazy to do a search for them right now?  :)

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