CGC Slabs storing in a Safe 2 2

[Chillax23]

Thinking about picking up a safe and I read through this thread:

and was wondering what safes people on this board were using for storage of CGC slabs at home?  I am thinking about picking up a small/medium size safe to store about 10-12 slabs and was looking at some options from Sentry like this one:

https://www.sentrysafe.com/product/SFW123GSC

But cannot find too much info about the fire-proofing materials they use.

Wondering if I should forego a fireproof safe OR if using silica packets (and changing every few months) would take care of the problem - the thread linked above is a bit inconsistent.  So looking to see what people on the boards are using and how long they have been using them (without incident)?

Not as concerned about Fire as I am about theft.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Chillax23

[comicquant]

You could always get collectibles insurance and forego the safe.  Its not light by any means but I can easily move around my 90 lb planer so someone can definitely walk out with that one.

Edited December 26, 2018 by comicquant

[Rune]

I don't care much about fire too - compared to theft. There once was a thread about a fireproof safe leading to buildup of moisture and possible corrosion af staples. I'm using a safe approved to EN1143-1 grade 1 (=Eurograde 1) - more info here:

https://www.safeoptions.co.uk/blog/what-do-eurograde-safe-ratings-mean/

I've talked to a few manufacturers, it seems that "fireproof" may mean that items within the safe will be kept at less than 338F (170C), which might not work well for cgc books anyway. 

As long as you buy something that no thief can lift and move, you should be fine - I keep remembering that scene from True Detectives, where evidence was hidden in a small hidden wall safe, which was relatively easy to remove from the wall and steal. That won't happen with a real safe ;-) I had a nice discussion with an experienced police detective, he told me that burglars never spend time on a safe - they just leave them alone and go for easier targets. 

So any heavy safe should be just fine ;-)

Edited December 26, 2018 by Rune

[Mayor Mccheese]

I bought a safe from Costco, the big gun safe.  I have all my slabs in there. I also have three of these in the safe.  Which is overkill.  But I also have insurance, not sure if it covers rust forming.  I think it might cover everything but that, like natural disaster, fire and theft.  I got it after the house next door caught fire and my comics were stolen from a storage unit. 

New and Improved Eva-dry E-333 Renewable Mini Dehumidifier https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H0XFCS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Gt.iCbE87FMTK

Ive never had any problems and the humidity is year round here.  I occasionally just open the same to air it out and to recharge the dehumidifiers.  Again, no problems with them or with rust forming. 

[Bomber-Bob]

I store most of my better books in numerous Bank Safety Deposit Boxes and a large gun safe at home. I also use the Eva Dry unit in my safe. I actually think the books preserve better in these metal units than they do in the cardboard CGC boxes, which probably has a lot of off gassing going on.

[BabaLament]

Had an electrical fire earlier this year, which had me somewhat concerned for my important documents, and more interesting books. So I picked up a safe. I've got a small container of damp-rid in there night now; it gets the job done; but I like the look of those reusable units @Mayor Mccheese linked. Might have to pick one of those up.

[Mayor Mccheese]

1 hour ago, BabaLament said:

Had an electrical fire earlier this year, which had me somewhat concerned for my important documents, and more interesting books. So I picked up a safe. I've got a small container of damp-rid in there night now; it gets the job done; but I like the look of those reusable units @Mayor Mccheese linked. Might have to pick one of those up.

They work really well. One of them covers 300 sq ft.  I have three of them in the safe lol. Total overkill. And they last 10 years. The Damp Rids are good, but it’s a one use item.  I also have them in my gun case too with a bull frog rust inhibitor.   I’ve seen Costco sell the two pack Eva Drys for $19.00

Edited December 27, 2018 by Mayor Mccheese

[Shadow Images]

6 hours ago, Chillax23 said:

Thinking about picking up a safe and I read through this thread:

and was wondering what safes people on this board were using for storage of CGC slabs at home?  I am thinking about picking up a small/medium size safe to store about 10-12 slabs and was looking at some options from Sentry like this one:

https://www.sentrysafe.com/product/SFW123GSC

But cannot find too much info about the fire-proofing materials they use.

Wondering if I should forego a fireproof safe OR if using silica packets (and changing every few months) would take care of the problem - the thread linked above is a bit inconsistent.  So looking to see what people on the boards are using and how long they have been using them (without incident)?

Not as concerned about Fire as I am about theft.

Your better off hiding your books than buying a cheap safe. Sentry safe are absolute junk. Quality safe are expensive. I would not even bother with the safes the Costco carries. In the end it all depends on what the value is of what you put in there.

[Chillax23]

17 minutes ago, Shadow Images said:

Your better off hiding your books than buying a cheap safe. Sentry safe are absolute junk. Quality safe are expensive. I would not even bother with the safes the Costco carries. In the end it all depends on what the value is of what you put in there.

Any safes you can recommend - just starting to research, so would appreciate a shortcut/reco

[Shadow Images]

1 hour ago, Chillax23 said:

Any safes you can recommend - just starting to research, so would appreciate a shortcut/reco

Champion is what I prefer and Liberty also makes good safes.

[Bunky Brian]

9 hours ago, Mayor Mccheese said:

I bought a safe from Costco, the big gun safe.  I have all my slabs in there. I also have three of these in the safe.  Which is overkill.  But I also have insurance, not sure if it covers rust forming.  I think it might cover everything but that, like natural disaster, fire and theft.  I got it after the house next door caught fire and my comics were stolen from a storage unit. 

New and Improved Eva-dry E-333 Renewable Mini Dehumidifier https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H0XFCS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Gt.iCbE87FMTK

Ive never had any problems and the humidity is year round here.  I occasionally just open the same to air it out and to recharge the dehumidifiers.  Again, no problems with them or with rust forming. 

"not sure if it covers rust forming" 100% WILL NOT COVER THIS FORM OF DAMAGE.

[Mayor Mccheese]

42 minutes ago, Bunky Brian said:

"not sure if it covers rust forming" 100% WILL NOT COVER THIS FORM OF DAMAGE.

Just gotta keep using those dehumidifiers then.  

[Westy Steve]

If you're going to spend the money for a safe, get a big one...you'll be glad you did.  Look for one that has multiple bars that stick all different directions into the door frame (or whatever they are called). 

IMHO, if you run air conditioning during the summer and heat in the winter, the humidity in your house should be fine for your books because it falls in the normal range and I don't think the typical gun safe is air tight.  I've always wondered if too much dry air is actually bad for books because the paper has inherent moisture in it, and keeping the paper dry would make it brittle over time as the moisture gets pulled out.  Maybe not, but read this and decide for yourself:  http://printwiki.org/Moisture_Content

 

[BabaLament]

@Bunky Brian is correct, as far as my policy is concerned. I just checked the verbiage, and rust falls under moisture-related damage; which means it isn't covered, unless the damage is a result of fire/theft/natural disaster (non-flood). I think @Westy Steve also makes a fair point; provided the safe is maintained within a climate controlled area that is kept relatively stable, condensation shouldn't really be an issue. I assume opening it once a week to do an air exchange, or a small dehumidifier in there, should work adequately. However, since there is interest on the subject, and I love these sorts of DIY experiments, I'm going to run a trial to see how it goes. I have two hygrometers in a humidor, I'll put the more accurate of the two (digital) in the safe for a week and do a day/night log on temperature & humidity. I'll also log the temperature/humidity in the house for an environmental baseline. I'll run it for a week without the dehumidifier, and a week with, and see how the numbers shake out. I'll start the experiment on 1/4/18; that'll give me a week to empty it out/without the damp rid to give it the same starting point as the rest of the house.

[Chillax23]

7 hours ago, BabaLament said:

@Bunky Brian is correct, as far as my policy is concerned. I just checked the verbiage, and rust falls under moisture-related damage; which means it isn't covered, unless the damage is a result of fire/theft/natural disaster (non-flood). I think @Westy Steve also makes a fair point; provided the safe is maintained within a climate controlled area that is kept relatively stable, condensation shouldn't really be an issue. I assume opening it once a week to do an air exchange, or a small dehumidifier in there, should work adequately. However, since there is interest on the subject, and I love these sorts of DIY experiments, I'm going to run a trial to see how it goes. I have two hygrometers in a humidor, I'll put the more accurate of the two (digital) in the safe for a week and do a day/night log on temperature & humidity. I'll also log the temperature/humidity in the house for an environmental baseline. I'll run it for a week without the dehumidifier, and a week with, and see how the numbers shake out. I'll start the experiment on 1/4/18; that'll give me a week to empty it out/without the damp rid to give it the same starting point as the rest of the house.

Well this sounds like fun - thanks in advance, I am very interested in these results

[Bomber-Bob]

12 hours ago, Westy Steve said:

If you're going to spend the money for a safe, get a big one...you'll be glad you did.  Look for one that has multiple bars that stick all different directions into the door frame (or whatever they are called). 

IMHO, if you run air conditioning during the summer and heat in the winter, the humidity in your house should be fine for your books because it falls in the normal range and I don't think the typical gun safe is air tight.  I've always wondered if too much dry air is actually bad for books because the paper has inherent moisture in it, and keeping the paper dry would make it brittle over time as the moisture gets pulled out.  Maybe not, but read this and decide for yourself:  http://printwiki.org/Moisture_Content

 

I agree with all your points above. I have a large gun safe and I have observed that generally the humidity inside the safe matches the humidity in the room. I think the key is to maintain a consistent humidity within normal levels. It's the fluctation that cause problems. I also agree that too dry is not good for the books. I think I would rather have the humidity a little too high than too low.

[DR.X]

On 12/26/2018 at 3:55 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

I store most of my better books in numerous Bank Safety Deposit Boxes and a large gun safe at home. I also use the Eva Dry unit in my safe. I actually think the books preserve better in these metal units than they do in the cardboard CGC boxes, which probably has a lot of off gassing going on.

I have two eva dry's in mine and they work great. I made a template of the bottom of my safe and cut out a 3/4" nice piece of plywood to set it on so no moisture is pulled out of the floor to the metal. I then drilled four holes ( and it came with indents to do this ) into the concrete and put in red hook anchors and bolted it it down with hardened steel bolts. Indio couldn't blast it off the floor.

Edited December 28, 2018 by DR.X

[BabaLament]

Hello all!

The first week of the safe temperature/humidity test is complete. For test conditions, the internal dimensions are 24x56x38 (depth/height/width) inches. It is loaded with six full graded comic boxes, personal documents, and no dehumidifier for the first week.

Over the week temperatures inside remained at 66-68 degrees, tracking with minor variations in house temperature as the central heat cycled, while humidity remained at 29-30%. I was surprised that the safe remained within a +/- 2 degree band, since my central AC unit has a +/- 3-5 degree dead-band before it cycles. The humidity was fairly constant, and matched the house.

This week I will be adding a EvaDry E-333 dehumidifier (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H0XFCS/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). After the experiment I will also be installing a permanent digital temperature/humidity monitor, and restoring the humidor unit to my humidor. I went with a ThermoPro TP63 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CSV14Y2/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) . This is an indoor/outdoor model that I chose because it is cheaper than the Xicar that I use for cigars, and I'm not really worried about humidity in the safe since I'll probably be opening it at least once a week; so it'll get semi-frequent air exchanges. 

[BabaLament]

Hello all!

Second week of the temperature/humidity test is complete.

During the second week the temperatures remained constant, tracking about +/- 2 degrees with the rest of the house as the heat cycles on/off. Adding the dehumidifier took the humidity down to around 23-27%; but that was variable throughout the week as opening/closing the safe would cause a small temporary swing. Since winter is a fairly dry season, I'm assuming the small change in humidity performance after adding the dehumidifier is due to their not being a lot of free moisture in the air for it to work with. I can take performance measurements again during the spring/summer to see how it handles rainy season if anyone is still interested.

Overall, I would say it was a successful test. Provided the climate controls on the house are in good working order, the temperature in the safe should remain close to the rest of the house. Humidity wasn't much of an issue with or without a dehumidifier; with the caveat that it is winter/dry air season. I think slab storage in the safe is, environmentally, just fine. 

[Bomber-Bob]

5 minutes ago, BabaLament said:

During the second week the temperatures remained constant, tracking about +/- 2 degrees with the rest of the house as the heat cycles on/off. Adding the dehumidifier took the humidity down to around 23-27%; but that was variable throughout the week as opening/closing the safe would cause a small temporary swing. Since winter is a fairly dry season, I'm assuming the small change in humidity performance after adding the dehumidifier is due to their not being a lot of free moisture in the air for it to work with. I can take performance measurements again during the spring/summer to see how it handles rainy season if anyone is still interested.

Overall, I would say it was a successful test. Provided the climate controls on the house are in good working order, the temperature in the safe should remain close to the rest of the house. Humidity wasn't much of an issue with or without a dehumidifier; with the caveat that it is winter/dry air season. I think slab storage in the safe is, environmentally, just fine. 

Though I leave it in the safe year round, I do think the Eva-Dry is only needed in the summer months. I've always found that the climate inside the safe somewhat mirrors the climate in the room. It seems like you have validated this.  I leave an ash tray with some vintage staples in the safe and check them occasionally. I think I am going on about 5 years with these staples and they look fine. I know I feel comfortable saying a gun safe is fine for your comics.