MCU Movie Speculation Investment 2 2

[Xenosmilus]

I am new to collecting and just made a investment for the thrill of it so to speak but hope to make a few bucks. 

I read some threads online about the new Black Knight may apprear in Advengers End Game in the last few days so pulled the trigger and bought Avengers #47 Cgc 9.8. I may have pulled the trigger a little early because I’m not sure now if #47 or #48 is the book to have if the speculation is true. I figured it would be a low risk buy too because it’s a 9.8 silver age book.

Thoughts?

Edit, Afterthoughts: 2018 was a good year for comics. I’m thinking not so much for 2019 with the down turn of the stock market....

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Xenosmilus

[marvelmaniac]

I am not about speculating or collecting as an investment, I collect for fun and have been for 40 years but since you are into speculating about Movies/Characters you may want to consider the entire family tree.

FIRST BLACK KNIGHT

https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/43373/black_knight_1955_1

 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by marvelmaniac

[Xenosmilus]

1 hour ago, marvelmaniac said:

I am not about speculating or collecting as an investment, I collect for fun and have been for 40 years but since you are into speculating about Movies/Characters you may want to consider the entire family tree.

FIRST BLACK KNIGHT

https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/43373/black_knight_1955_1

 

 

I collect for fun also but I thought I give this one a shot and roll the dice...

I bought the issue at the going price so it’s a low risk buy I thought also.

My knowledge about the Black Knight in MCU is almost zero but from my limited knowledge there are 3 incarnations  for him in MCU and the 3rd incarnation  of him is what is speculated to be introduced in Avengers Endgame. The first appearance of the alter ego is in Avengers #47. Most of the web sites I visited say that is the first appearance. However the first appearance of the hero/origin is in Avengers #48 which Overstreet list as the first appearance.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Xenosmilus

[indianajoe544]

For what it's worth I think First Appearance Dane Whitman (Avengers 47) is more meaningful than First Appearance Dane Whitman as Black Knight (Avengers 48).  Reasonable people will disagree though.  47 has a pretty crazy yellow cover and 48 has the character in costume on the cover. Covers sometimes matter more than the guts and I can see people loving 48 because its the character in costume.  That said, different people will have different preferences as to what book they value more.  I'm always down for a good ole nerd fight over which book is better but frankly if one book does well the other will too.  Also, keep in mind that Overstreet's opinion really doesn't carry the weight it used to.  Most younger collectors largely form their opinion based on what people say on the internet and ignore Overstreet entirely.  Older folks use Overstreet as a bible.  Comic books are by no means a rational market as it's predicated largely on subjective beliefs rather than any analysis of objective fundamentals.    

To your point though, I too recently bough Avengers 47 and I feel good about it.  Both 47 and 48 are books that are rare in 9.6 and 9.8.  Assuming Black Knight plays a role in the MCU (big assumption) I think both books raise in value and a fear of missing out bubble will quickly form as more information drips in.  In total there are like just over 100 CGC graded books of Avengers 47 and Avengers 48 in graded NM+ condition.  People who collect silver keys and collect MCU stuff will want both. There are well over 100 hardcore collectors out there so there should be sufficient demand. 

The 1950s first app of the black knight character is also an extremely solid book and probably the safest long term hold.  If  Dane Whitman is not in any of the movies than obviously the demand for 47 and 48 for will be highly tempered.  If Marvel uses the Black Knight I think it will be the most modern Whitman version but that is just a guess.  Unfortunately, Black Knight, in my opinion, kind of sucks as a character.  No author has really done the character much justice and I really cant think of any cool stand out stories concerning the character which explains why his key books have remained fairly obscure.  Same can be said though for other marvel characters who's books blew up on price from movie appearances.

At the end of the day  though if you like the book you bought and are patient long term, I don't see you losing money, nor having regrets on the purchase.  I'd generally rather take a gamble on a 40 year old silver age semi key that has a lot of potential  opposed to some some flavor of the week modern variant. Honestly the only times I've ever like gotten upset buying a book was when I've stupidly spent like hundreds of dollars on a 1: (insert dumb number here) modern variant and there was like 0 demand for it.  I hate finding myself in a situation where you get little little personal joy from a book because the book has  absolutely no historical value and therefore doesn't even give you a cool conversation piece. Worse case scenario,you have a pretty rare book and can talk to people about the history of a fairly obscure Avenger.   If you like comics then those conversations will be worth the purchase alone.

-Joe   

Edited January 5, 2019 by indianajoe544

[Real Elijah Snow]

On 1/4/2019 at 12:01 PM, marvelmaniac said:

I am not about speculating or collecting as an investment, I collect for fun and have been for 40 years but since you are into speculating about Movies/Characters you may want to consider the entire family tree.

FIRST BLACK KNIGHT

https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/43373/black_knight_1955_1

 

 

You may want to include the original Black Knight's first appearance instead of that TTA. Unfortunately,  finding a copy is borderline impossible.  

[marvelmaniac]

28 minutes ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

You may want to include the original Black Knight's first appearance instead of that TTA. Unfortunately,  finding a copy is borderline impossible.  

I did not list TTA as the first Black Knight, there is a link under "First Black Knight" showing the exact book you posted.

[Xenosmilus]

There is a #47 CGC 9.8 auction now on eBay with 6 days left.  It's already up to 1K 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Xenosmilus

[lou_fine]

On 1/3/2019 at 9:22 AM, Xenosmilus said:

Thoughts?

Well, although it's a BA book, the one that I heard that has been getting a lot of chatter recently is Special Marvel Edition 15 with the first appearance of Shang-Chi MOKF.  

Especially after Marvel announced that it was working on developing a Shang-Chi movie for Phase 4 of their MCU movie lineup.  No doubt to follow up and cash in on the success of the racially diversified Black Panther movie last year and the fact that China is fast becoming the dominant player in the movie biz.  Just take a look at where the big box office money for a third tier character like Aquaman is coming from as it's now approaching $1B on a global basis.  

So, just imagine if they have an Asian racially diversified movie with an Asian lead actor and actress, along with an Asian director to boot.  

[tth2]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

 

So, just imagine if they have an Asian racially diversified movie with an Asian lead actor and actress, along with an Asian director to boot.  

Yeah, but the Asian character would be doing kung-fu.  

So simultaneous racial diversity and total perpetuation of a racial stereotype! 

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 1/4/2019 at 9:59 PM, indianajoe544 said:

For what it's worth I think First Appearance Dane Whitman (Avengers 47) is more meaningful than First Appearance Dane Whitman as Black Knight (Avengers 48).  Reasonable people will disagree though.  47 has a pretty crazy yellow cover and 48 has the character in costume on the cover. Covers sometimes matter more than the guts and I can see people loving 48 because its the character in costume.  That said, different people will have different preferences as to what book they value more.  I'm always down for a good ole nerd fight over which book is better but frankly if one book does well the other will too.  Also, keep in mind that Overstreet's opinion really doesn't carry the weight it used to.  Most younger collectors largely form their opinion based on what people say on the internet and ignore Overstreet entirely.  Older folks use Overstreet as a bible.  Comic books are by no means a rational market as it's predicated largely on subjective beliefs rather than any analysis of objective fundamentals.    

To your point though, I too recently bough Avengers 47 and I feel good about it.  Both 47 and 48 are books that are rare in 9.6 and 9.8.  Assuming Black Knight plays a role in the MCU (big assumption) I think both books raise in value and a fear of missing out bubble will quickly form as more information drips in.  In total there are like just over 100 CGC graded books of Avengers 47 and Avengers 48 in graded NM+ condition.  People who collect silver keys and collect MCU stuff will want both. There are well over 100 hardcore collectors out there so there should be sufficient demand. 

The 1950s first app of the black knight character is also an extremely solid book and probably the safest long term hold.  If  Dane Whitman is not in any of the movies than obviously the demand for 47 and 48 for will be highly tempered.  If Marvel uses the Black Knight I think it will be the most modern Whitman version but that is just a guess.  Unfortunately, Black Knight, in my opinion, kind of sucks as a character.  No author has really done the character much justice and I really cant think of any cool stand out stories concerning the character which explains why his key books have remained fairly obscure.  Same can be said though for other marvel characters who's books blew up on price from movie appearances.

At the end of the day  though if you like the book you bought and are patient long term, I don't see you losing money, nor having regrets on the purchase.  I'd generally rather take a gamble on a 40 year old silver age semi key that has a lot of potential  opposed to some some flavor of the week modern variant. Honestly the only times I've ever like gotten upset buying a book was when I've stupidly spent like hundreds of dollars on a 1: (insert dumb number here) modern variant and there was like 0 demand for it.  I hate finding myself in a situation where you get little little personal joy from a book because the book has  absolutely no historical value and therefore doesn't even give you a cool conversation piece. Worse case scenario,you have a pretty rare book and can talk to people about the history of a fairly obscure Avenger.   If you like comics then those conversations will be worth the purchase alone.

-Joe   

Great first post!

[Readcomix]

What the heck...while you're at it with Black Knight keys (there's crazier ideas within the game you're playing -- lord knows they've been dead long enough) maybe throw in a nice sharp Marvel SuperHeroes 17 while you're at it. It's his first solo story, in a 1968 square bound with a dark cover, so it can't be too common compared to its 1968 peers in high grade.

But what do I know? The only Venom book NOT to spike before that movie was ASM annual 25 (1st solo appearance). But if you want to be completist about Black Knight keys, I guess MSH 17 is in the mix too. 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Readcomix
Gave wrong issue #, sorry

[Xenosmilus]

55 minutes ago, Readcomix said:

What the heck...while you're at it with Black Knight keys (there's crazier ideas within the game you're playing -- lord knows they've been dead long enough) maybe throw in a nice sharp Marvel SuperHeroes 16 while you're at it. It's his first solo story, in a 1968 square bound with a dark cover, so it can't be too common compared to its 1968 peers in high grade.

But what do I know? The only Venom book NOT to spike before that movie was ASM annual 25 (1st solo appearance). But if you want to be completist about Black Knight keys, I guess MSH 16 is in the mix too. 

 

Maybe your right about the gamble, but I don’t thinks it’s a gamble. I paid the going GPA rate for 9.8 Cgc graded slab of a silverage popular book. It was/is a low risk investment.

[Readcomix]

26 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

Maybe your right about the gamble, but I don’t thinks it’s a gamble. I paid the going GPA rate for 9.8 Cgc graded slab of a silverage popular book. It was/is a low risk investment.

Heck no, we're saying the same thing. By game I just mean playing at speculation which is a legitimate part of this (and I assume) most every collecting hobby. I think your pick is reasonable and low-risk, with nice potential upside (in the context of investing in comics). 

Throughout the mid-200's of the Avengers run, the character was actually well fleshed-out and a significant member, so there's good precedent for him as a solid avenger. (The lineup was him, Cap, Hercules, Starfox, Capt Marvel as the core for a while, morphing later to him, Sersi, Herc, Vision and Crystal. I should flip through the long box, but I remember it as a very readable era and Dane Whitman as a three-dimensional member for the first time in Avengers lore.)

I think the character can possibly surprise a lot of people.

[Xenosmilus]

On 1/11/2019 at 10:09 PM, Readcomix said:

Heck no, we're saying the same thing. By game I just mean playing at speculation which is a legitimate part of this (and I assume) most every collecting hobby. I think your pick is reasonable and low-risk, with nice potential upside (in the context of investing in comics). 

Throughout the mid-200's of the Avengers run, the character was actually well fleshed-out and a significant member, so there's good precedent for him as a solid avenger. (The lineup was him, Cap, Hercules, Starfox, Capt Marvel as the core for a while, morphing later to him, Sersi, Herc, Vision and Crystal. I should flip through the long box, but I remember it as a very readable era and Dane Whitman as a three-dimensional member for the first time in Avengers lore.)

I think the character can possibly surprise a lot of people.

One just sold for 2K on eBay. I picked mine up for 800 just a few weeks ago!

[Readcomix]

10 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

One just sold for 2K on eBay. I picked mine up for 800 just a few weeks ago!

Yea baby, congrats! 

Like I said, this character could surprise a lotta people... (Of course, we ain't two of 'em...) 

Seriously; good call and looking back on the Avengers run I do believe there's enough to the character that he can deliver on screen. 

[Callaway29]

On 1/5/2019 at 12:10 PM, Real Elijah Snow said:

You may want to include the original Black Knight's first appearance instead of that TTA. Unfortunately,  finding a copy is borderline impossible.  

Well look what just fell in my lap. No idea if BK will make an appearance on the big screen, or if it will even be Sir Percy over Dane Whitman...but I think we can all agree this is the coolest of the first appearances to own. Scarce (only 33 on census) 1955 Atlas written by Stan Lee with an awesome cover... Beat up but I don’t care.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Callaway29

[Dick Pontoon]

Any copy of that book is a good copy to own.

[Rosland]

I have gazed into my crystal ball while burning eau d'locker room incence sticks. The
veil has opened to the window of the future... (cue spooky music)

Season 1:
~ With the success of "Godzilla: King of the Monsters", Disney decides to do a new TV
~ series for teens featuring Rick Jones, Amadeus Cho, and a yet-to-be-announced female,
~ who cleverly expose/fight pre-hero monsters and hapless aliens attempting to conquer
~ the world. These creatures are then exiled to a mysterious island (Monster Island).
~ Some guest appearances by established super-heroes.

Season 2 + Big budget Movie:
~ An avengers quinjet crashlands on Monster Island (think Jurassic Park for super-monsters)
~ and they have to fight to stay alive and escape. Hercules, Beast, Valkyrie, Brother Voodoo,
~ and others are cast. Fin Fang Foom, Goom, Glob, Roc, Rorgg, among others provide suspense.
~ Rick/Amadeus/? decide to go to Monster Island to help the heroes against the wishes of the
~ establishment. 

You heard it here first. Invest now and invest often.

 

 

[FineCollector]

On 1/11/2019 at 10:09 PM, Readcomix said:

Throughout the mid-200's of the Avengers run, the character was actually well fleshed-out and a significant member, so there's good precedent for him as a solid avenger. (The lineup was him, Cap, Hercules, Starfox, Capt Marvel as the core for a while, morphing later to him, Sersi, Herc, Vision and Crystal. I should flip through the long box, but I remember it as a very readable era and Dane Whitman as a three-dimensional member for the first time in Avengers lore.)

I think the character can possibly surprise a lot of people.

The 90's Avengers run was fantastic, even though a lot of people dump on it.  Palmer and Epting's art was a feast for the eyes, and the Crossing storyline was serious business.

I'm a fan of Black Knight.  Sir Percy in Atlas Black Knight 1-5, Nathan Garrett in TTA and Kirby Avengers, Dane Whitman in John Buscema Avengers, Sal's Defenders, the 4 part mini, Marvel Fanfare, 80's and 90s Avengers, Ultraforce, New Excalibur... I'm completing all of it, and I've gotta say, all of the people suddenly looking for copies of Atlas Black Knight 1 and Avengers 48 without knowing anything about the character pisses me the F off.

Happy collecting!

Edited March 19, 2019 by FineCollector

[kimik]

So that explains the interest in the Avengers 6 CGC 8.0 I have up in the current Clink auction. I was wondering why there are so many bids for an otherwise uneventful book.