Stain removal. Is it possible
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Hi everyone. Is it possible to clean a stain that's probably been in the comic since probably over 30 years.

Can anything be done such as cleaning?

The comic in question is a key marvel book...

stain.jpg

stain_zoom.jpg

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It's possible but the book would then be considered Restored after the cleaning.

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1 minute ago, faster friends said:

It's possible but the book would then be considered Restored after the cleaning.

Ok thanks. Man CGC has some good detectives in house :)

 

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13 hours ago, faster friends said:

It's possible but the book would then be considered Restored after the cleaning.

Well, they might categorize it as Conserved. Which is better than the PLOD, but still not Universal.

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if the OP left it as is...

 

how much would the stain effect the grade?

the book look almost NM from the back, assuming it is 9.0 or better, how much would that stain drop the grade(Only asking because I have a few comics with similar stains and would like to know)

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22 hours ago, oldrover said:

Well, they might categorize it as Conserved. 

I'm not sure about that. I thought the Conserved label is for things like a tear seal or rust removal on the staple. Things that will prevent a condition from getting worse. The stain will not get worse over time. (shrug)

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1 hour ago, billbrown7080 said:

if the OP left it as is...

 

how much would the stain effect the grade?

the book look almost NM from the back, assuming it is 9.0 or better, how much would that stain drop the grade(Only asking because I have a few comics with similar stains and would like to know)

Bill, first off he didn't ask about the grade and secondly, without seeing the front cover, it is impossible to say. Does the stain permeate to the front cover ? Does it go through te pages ? These things matter.  I know it seems like I am picking on you but you continue to ask the same type of question. You want a specific answer to a broad stroked question where 'it depends'.  There are no rules for how much a stain will affect the grade. It depends on the condition of the rest of the book and the size, depth, and severity of the stain. A cofee stain is worse than a water stain. CGC hammers stains. I would not be surprised to see a 9.0 book grade a 6.0 with a stain like this. It is a very bad flaw.

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24 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I'm not sure about that. I thought the Conserved label is for things like a tear seal or rust removal on the staple. Things that will prevent a condition from getting worse. The stain will not get worse over time. (shrug)

I have an Avengers 4 PLOD with a chemically cleansed cover (that’s the only resto). Submitted it to CGC for regrading, and they re-categorized it as Conserved. 

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5 minutes ago, oldrover said:

I have an Avengers 4 PLOD with a chemically cleansed cover (that’s the only resto). Submitted it to CGC for regrading, and they re-categorized it as Conserved. 

Interesting. I just looked up CGC's defintiion of the Conserved label and it does reference 'certain kinds of cleaning' . Now, what the heck that means is beyond me ???

Specific repairs done to improve the structural integrity and long-term preservation of a comic book will now be classified as “conservation” and designated with a blue / purple label. These repairs include tear seals, support, staple replacement, piece reattachment and certain kinds of cleaning. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Bill, first off he didn't ask about the grade and secondly, without seeing the front cover, it is impossible to say. Does the stain permeate to the front cover ? Does it go through te pages ? These things matter.  I know it seems like I am picking on you but you continue to ask the same type of question. You want a specific answer to a broad stroked question where 'it depends'.  There are no rules for how much a stain will affect the grade. It depends on the condition of the rest of the book and the size, depth, and severity of the stain. A cofee stain is worse than a water stain. CGC hammers stains. I would not be surprised to see a 9.0 book grade a 6.0 with a stain like this. It is a very bad flaw.

I know the OP didnt ask, thats why I specifically stated I WANTED to KNOW...

 

Its not unreasonable to say "Hey, how much do you think this stain will effect the grade"...

I know you posters arent Professional CGC graders and I'm not asking you to give a definite answer, I get that all stains are different, But If someone is just trying to get a ballpark number like me, I'm not expecting to Quote you or Hold you to it...

all I wanted was exactly what you eventually said

" I would not be surprised to see a 9.0 book grade a 6.0 with a stain like this. It is a very bad flaw."

^ that was all I was looking for...

 

When I ask these questions, I'm just looking for "Educated Guesses"....I dont want you or anyone else to break down the stain, Just common sense, When you first saw the stain, what was your first thought...did you think "Damn thats bad, that will probably cost 2 points?"....did you think "not to bad maybe 1 point"....

If you are reading my questions and thinking I'm wanting detailed answers, I'm not....I do understand All stains are different, and there is no definate answer, But there are posters here with much more experience than me, and I'm sure a lot of them can look at a stain and give a pretty good guesstimate on how much that stain effects the grade ....and thats all I'm asking for...

 

 

 

Edited by billbrown7080

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Interesting. I just looked up CGC's defintiion of the Conserved label and it does reference 'certain kinds of cleaning' . Now, what the heck that means is beyond me ???

Specific repairs done to improve the structural integrity and long-term preservation of a comic book will now be classified as “conservation” and designated with a blue / purple label. These repairs include tear seals, support, staple replacement, piece reattachment and certain kinds of cleaning. 

Certain chemicals will produce a purple label, others conserved, and even other chemicals are literally impossible for CGC to detect. So it really comes down to the chemical makeup and how it's effecting the paper long term.

Something in my gut tells me that if it's just a water stain (which can technically be removed with more water) then it can be removed with no trace elements and CGC will never have known it was there. 

 

This is especially true with stains localized on interior pages, where the paper type is far more forgiving; at least in my experience.

Edited by Phill the Governor

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1 hour ago, billbrown7080 said:

I know the OP didnt ask, thats why I specifically stated I WANTED to KNOW...

 

Its not unreasonable to say "Hey, how much do you think this stain will effect the grade"...

I know you posters arent Professional CGC graders and I'm not asking you to give a definite answer, I get that all stains are different, But If someone like me is just trying to get a ballpark number like me, I'm not expecting to Quote you or Hold you to it...

all I wanted was exactly what eventually said

" I would not be surprised to see a 9.0 book grade a 6.0 with a stain like this. It is a very bad flaw."

^ that was all I was looking for...

 

When I ask these questions, I'm just looking for "Educated Guesses"....I dont want you or anyone else to break down the stain, Just common sense, When you first saw the stain, what was your first thought...did you think "Damn thats bad, that will probably cost 2 points?"....did you think "not to bad maybe 1 point"....

If you are reading my questions and thinking I'm wanting detailed answers, I'm not....I do understand All stains are different, and there is no definate answer, But there are posters here with much more experience than me, and I'm sure a lot of them can look at a stain and give a pretty good guesstimate on how much that stain effects the grade ....and thats all I'm asking for...

 

 

 

My first thought was that the stain is pretty big and it's fairly noticeable. The good thing is that it's on the back cover. If it affects the pages it will get hit harder than if it's confined to just the back cover. If the rest of the book is really nice (like Near Mint nice) the best you could probably hope for is a 7.0. And like Bomber Bob said, most of the time a book like this will end up somewhere in the Fine range (6.0 - 6.5). I hope this helps!  

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FYI, the comic in question was ASM 194 and sold for nearly 200$ US on ebay (with the stay).

Here is the cover. I didn't bid on it because of the stain. Otherwise very high grade copy. A shame...

front.jpg

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4 hours ago, Phill the Governor said:

Certain chemicals will produce a purple label, others conserved, and even other chemicals are literally impossible for CGC to detect. So it really comes down to the chemical makeup and how it's effecting the paper long term.

Something in my gut tells me that if it's just a water stain (which can technically be removed with more water) then it can be removed with no trace elements and CGC will never have known it was there. 

 

This is especially true with stains localized on interior pages, where the paper type is far more forgiving; at least in my experience.

Good information, very good information but I can see the light bulbs going on in the minds of all the DIY pressers. It is disconcerting to think that the name of the game today is to fool, or get stuff, by CGC. Removing stains that CGC cannot detect should not be rewarded, it should be frowned upon. Ultimately, the book worked on will settle into the hands of a collector who will never know a book was manipulated. I once had a key book in CGC 8.5 that looked a lot nicer. I showed it to Matt Nelson for a possible press. He said, because of some stains, the book would remain 8.5 . I eventually sold the book, as is, and saw it later in the marketplace as a 9.2, and then an overgraded 9.4 . Same book, pedigree designation. I'm sure it happens all the time.

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