Fake labels/fraud books 3 3

[deadleg]

I actually sent the Hertiage Auctions FAQ video to an eBay buyer today to explain that it was a normal occurrence for the 1st generation slabs to only be sealed at the corner posts and that the slab being opened on the side was also normal. He accused me of tampering with the slab, so I asked him what I had to gain by swapping out a $30 book. 

[W16227]

 - IBTL??

 

 

[Mmehdy]

Independent of Robert, I have confirmed  that 6 GA books were involved. That the "other guy" is not making that up.This really opens up a number of issues as to plastic holder security or ability to repo one, reproduction of a CGC Label, and criminal intent to defraud. There are a bunch of evil guys out there that are greedy no good leachs on our great comic book hobby...these people need to be held accountable and brought to justice. I would going forward confine major purchases to the action houses/ dealers which would refund you purchase price unless you have the ability to personally inspect what you buy...I would exhibit caution buying anything on E-Bay, Craigs List, etc. without researching the pedigree and making sure there is a return policy in place during the purchase for a reasonable time period

Edited January 8, 2019 by Mmehdy

[sfcityduck]

One flaw with these boards is the CGC vs. CBCS tribalism.  It causes people to make statements that are best described as "you doth protest too much" in defense of perceived slights on CGC.  CGC can defend itself, its reputation is well-established, it does not need over exuberant fan boys disparaging its competition with false slights.

[Mmehdy]

7 minutes ago, Die Humberto Die! said:

Pics or it didn't happen.

I do not have the books in my possession, sorry but I assume the "other guy" has shared it with CGC....They are all in it together.....still it makes common sense to be careful no matter what happened.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Mmehdy

[sfcityduck]

4 minutes ago, Die Humberto Die! said:

Pics or it didn't happen.

That statement is so foolish.  Often pics are not available, just credible statements.  An example:  There's no pics of the Mile High Action 1.  So are we to conclude that there's no Mile High Action 1?  Are we to give no credence to Borock (9.4) and Fishler's (9.2) grades and statements that the book is the top Action 1?  

[Mmehdy]

1 minute ago, sfcityduck said:

That statement is so foolish.  Often pics are not available, just credible statements.  An example:  There's no pics of the Mile High Action 1.  So are we to conclude that there's no Mile High Action 1?  Are we to give no credence to Borock (9.4) and Fishler's (9.2) grades and statements that the book is the top Action 1?  

FYI, before grade inflation many years ago Bob Overstreet told me he held it in his hand and grade it a minimum of 9.0....that was many moons ago..LOL

[Mmehdy]

19 minutes ago, Die Humberto Die! said:

Relax Mr. Literal, it's a saying. It means we need proof. There is proof that the books above exist, but there is no proof that Beerbong and Mitch are telling the truth.

The odds of the" other guy", beer, and me being wrong  that makes three not two...I do not see how liberal or conservative has any meaning whatsoever to this issue, regardless of how you feel on politics WE together should agree that this type of practice is not acceptable to ANYBODY...PERIOD

Edited January 8, 2019 by Mmehdy

[sfcityduck]

16 minutes ago, Die Humberto Die! said:

Relax Mr. Literal, it's a saying. It means we need proof. There is proof that the books above exist, but there is no proof that Beerbong and Mitch are telling the truth.

What exactly do you think Mitch made up in the below statement?  All he said is that he confirmed the books exist, which you seem to agree is the case:

Quote

 I have confirmed  that 6 GA books were involved. That the "other guy" is not making that up.This really opens up a number of issues as to plastic holder security or ability to repo one, reproduction of a CGC Label, and criminal intent to defraud. There are a bunch of evil guys out there that are greedy no good leachs on our great comic book hobby...these people need to be held accountable and brought to justice. I would going forward confine major purchases to the action houses/ dealers which would refund you purchase price unless you have the ability to personally inspect what you buy...I would exhibit caution buying anything on E-Bay, Craigs List, etc. without researching the pedigree and making sure there is a return policy in place during the purchase for a reasonable time period

Mitch's advice is cautious, but not unreasonable.

[Mmehdy]

1 minute ago, Die Humberto Die! said:

It says "literal" not "liberal"  

opps..sorry

[kav]

politics!!

[valiantman]

18 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Far more common are the people who don't know what they're doing but rush to judgment and are too quick to cry "FAKE!!!" without evidence.

No presidential politics. 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

No presidential politics. 

 

Quiet, hippy!

[sfcityduck]

2 hours ago, Die Humberto Die! said:

 

 

You need to re-read the posts, i agreed with nothing. Your quote below this sentence is not mine.

Compare what you say:  

 

Quote

 

 Die Humberto Die! said:

Relax Mr. Literal, it's a saying. It means we need proof. There is proof that the books above exist ...

 

 

With what Mitch said:  

 

Quote

 

Mmehdy said:

Independent of Robert, I have confirmed  that 6 GA books were involved. That the "other guy" is not making that up

 

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

26 minutes ago, Die Humberto Die! said:

Wow, neither you nor Mitch know how to read  Context is important, see the proper one below.

The "books above" are the ones you listed. Not sure what's confusing you when I immediately follow that up with there is NO proof backing Mitch or Beerbong's statements.

I don't think the problem was "context."  The "context" here are that we're talking about multiple GA books which allegedly have false labels.  

The example I gave, to refute the notion that only "pics" constitute proof, regarded a single book (not "books") - the Mile High Action 1.  The only "proof" we have regarding the notion that book is the best extant Action 1 are statements by people who have seen the book or have discussed the copy with people who have seen the book.  Just as the only "proof" offered to support the notion that the GA books had false labels are statements by people who have seen the books or who have discussed the issue with people who have seen the books.

You are more than a little imprecise and inconsistent in the statements you are making on this thread.

Edited January 8, 2019 by sfcityduck

[LordRahl]

4 hours ago, Die Humberto Die! said:

Look out, Beerbong has joined the fray with more unsubstantiated claims...

" Robert Beerbohm Earlier in the morning I talked with the fellow who bought the collection which had half a dozen of this fake slab label on them. He also bought many other issues now at CBCS Comics for certification. Known him 50 years now.

I also know the guy who sold them to the guy who bought them. Known him 45+ years now. He told me what and who he sold them to a few weeks before the recent Dallas Fantasy Fair. The guy who sold them is a collector, not a dealer by any stretch of imagination.

Was a bit surprised to see this being sort of discussed here. Steve Borock and/or more likely one of his worker bees scoped out the inventory control numbers and found some did not fit.

The collector bought his books at shows, not via mails. Not eBay, not from the auction houses. At shows one on one with the sellers he dealt with.

I am a bit surprised to see this post here sort of talking about this.

I think the head's up warning here to be spot on. Simply get in to the habit of double checking, is all. Big bucks attracts stuff like this.

The guy who bought them I sold a van load of comics today.

He brought it up in almost passing when I happened to have brought up the JIM 83 CGC switch out eBay auction scenario now making the rounds over there in that arrogant cesspool they call "boards"

Now over inside CGC Comics they are attacking CBCS Comics as well as Steve Borock personally assuming CGC is the company in question not pausing to actually absorb the words of this warning.

CGC Comics thought their company was going to become monopoly in the cert field. Then CBCS came on the set. I applaud CBCS Comic Book Certification Service instituting ethics back in to the collecting world. I am going to FBI soon over the owner of CGC. He will rue the day......"

What a nut job 

[LordRahl]

4 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

Independent of Robert, I have confirmed  that 6 GA books were involved. That the "other guy" is not making that up.This really opens up a number of issues as to plastic holder security or ability to repo one, reproduction of a CGC Label, and criminal intent to defraud. There are a bunch of evil guys out there that are greedy no good leachs on our great comic book hobby...these people need to be held accountable and brought to justice. I would going forward confine major purchases to the action houses/ dealers which would refund you purchase price unless you have the ability to personally inspect what you buy...I would exhibit caution buying anything on E-Bay, Craigs List, etc. without researching the pedigree and making sure there is a return policy in place during the purchase for a reasonable time period

Any details around this? Let's assume that it's legit even without pics. What cases/labels were used (1st gen, 2nd gen, current)? If the label was counterfeit, it stands to reason that the books were either restored or considerably lower grade. Which is it? Where were the books purchased and from whom. I don't trust Beerbong so I don't want to give him credence but he's making it sound like they were bought from multiple people live at shows. Is that the case? High dollar books from what I can tell... hard to believe the current owner that subbed them to CBCS wouldn't remember where he bought them.

Edited January 8, 2019 by LordRahl

[kav]

16 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

Any details around this? Let's assume that it's legit even without pics. What cases/labels were used (1st gen, 2nd gen, current)? If the label was counterfeit, it stands to reason that the books were either restored or considerably lower grade. Which is it? Where were the books purchased and from whom. I don't trust Beerbong so I don't want to give him credence but he's making it sound like they were bought from multiple people live at shows. Is that the case? High dollar books from what I can tell... hard to believe the current owner that subbed them to CBCS wouldn't remember where he bought them.

Plus the claim he purchased over long time period, various sellers-must have worst luck ever-

[ygogolak]

5 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

That statement is so foolish.  Often pics are not available, just credible statements.  An example:  There's no pics of the Mile High Action 1.  So are we to conclude that there's no Mile High Action 1?  Are we to give no credence to Borock (9.4) and Fishler's (9.2) grades and statements that the book is the top Action 1?  

It's 2019, not 1977. Every person that works for that company has a high quality camera in their pocket. They also have multiple scanners which would do an even better job or providing photographic evidence.

[sfcityduck]

4 hours ago, ygogolak said:

It's 2019, not 1977. Every person that works for that company has a high quality camera in their pocket. They also have multiple scanners which would do an even better job or providing photographic evidence.

My point was that pics likely were not available to Mitch.  He is quoting others.