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Outbreak of Shaken Comic Syndrome
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182 posts in this topic

39 minutes ago, Gaard said:

I can't speak for the carriers warehouses, but I do have some experience dealing with carriers/drivers. I deal with shipping/receiving all 3 major carriers (USPS /UPS / FedEx) on a daily basis at my work. When I'm giving them dozens of boxes to deliver, they'll put them on the truck with the label up. I've never asked them why...I'll make a point to ask Monday.  When they're delivering, and are having trouble finding a box (they know how many boxes are to be delivered at any location), they'll wander about the truck, looking at all the labels, which are invariably facing up. Based on this, I'm going to assume that whichever side of the box the shipping label was applied to is facing up the vast majority of the time.

Another thing to consider concerning this is that the scanners have read the label.

That makes me think your drivers don't have busy routes. Because at my job we have hundreds of packages delivered every day, and when the truck gets full the boxes get put on any way they can. And I'm sure you've seen them unloaded before? The light ones are literally thrown around. They may *try* to keep the label up, but the likelihood that it will stay that way is exceedingly rare. 

Also: 

sZblLxM.jpg 

lol

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On 5/27/2019 at 2:20 PM, Krishosein said:

This is kind of worrisome as there a quite a few treasured ASM's 2-30 potentially I wanted to get graded but I'm considering not sending them in now until I know this potential issue has been resolved as this looks like a combination of both shipping and loose inner wells. Not sure what to trust. would CGC put extra packaging to help make it bomb proof to help combat this? can we ask for it? 

Yes, it's a concern for me as well. :cry:

I can tell you what I remember about packaging and shipping books from CGC. We used to select an appropriate box for the number of comics to be shipped. On larger orders, multiple boxes had to be used. There was a wide array of packing materials available for use in the shipping department. It was up to the shipper to select the correct materials, and there wasn't really any set formula for the amount or type of materials that were used. On larger orders, what I remember doing is placing a square cardboard insert into the box first, which effectively separated the books from the edges of the box. Then I'd place each book into the insert one at a time, placing cardboard sheets between each book as I went. When the insert was full (or the books in the invoice were all installed) I'd put additional packing material (such as bubble wrap) into any unfilled spaces inside the box. In this way, not only were the books individually protected, but the entire box was reinforced so nothing could shift while in transit. 

As far as the trials and tribulations of the inner well, a lot depends on the person responsible for this part of the process. As I've stated before, selecting the appropriate inner well seems to be one of the keys to success in reducing SCS. I've found that any time the book can move around inside the well, it increases the likelihood of SCS. And properly heat sealing the well is also a must. In many of these SCS situations, it appears the comic is sliding out through the bottom of the well. This would indicate to me the book or books have been shipped in an upright position and the box they were shipped in was dropped upright onto a hard surface (in my experience, the book will move toward the edge where the impact occurs). If there are multiple impacts, the book could experience multiple traumatic episodes. 

In my view, there is more than one factor at play here. I believe it's a combination of an inefficient inner well, an ineffective heat seal, an insufficient amount of packing material, and an overextended shipping system. Not a good scenario for fragile books with a limited lifespan...

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On 5/30/2019 at 3:26 PM, LordRahl said:

Just got this Fantucchio 9.6 picture frame from CL. See any problems with that 9.6 grade?:censored::frustrated: This appears to be the same type of damage as was posted a few pages back. This is new SCS from my experience. Much as Roy pointed out, SCS didn't seem to be a problem with the wedges before but both the book that was posted earlier and this book have the wedges. I'm assuming something has changed in the slabbing process to cause this. This damage is bad, not only crunched the corner but also caused multiple tears. At best this book is now a 8.0. Hopefully CGC gets a nice irate call from CL when CL gets this book back as I don't think this is an isolated incident.

@CGC Comics - you may want to investigate if this is a result of a change in your slabbing or just an "isolated incident". 

 

 

20190530_121052.jpg

20190530_121120.jpg

:cry:

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4 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Yes, it's a concern for me as well. :cry:

I can tell you what I remember about packaging and shipping books from CGC. We used to select an appropriate box for the number of comics to be shipped. On larger orders, multiple boxes had to be used. There was a wide array of packing materials available for use in the shipping department. It was up to the shipper to select the correct materials, and there wasn't really any set formula for the amount or type of materials that were used. On larger orders, what I remember doing is placing a square cardboard insert into the box first, which effectively separated the books from the edges of the box. Then I'd place each book into the insert one at a time, placing cardboard sheets between each book as I went. When the insert was full (or the books in the invoice were all installed) I'd put additional packing material (such as bubble wrap) into any unfilled spaces inside the box. In this way, not only were the books individually protected, but the entire box was reinforced so nothing could shift while in transit. 

As far as the trials and tribulations of the inner well, a lot depends on the person responsible for this part of the process. As I've stated before, selecting the appropriate inner well seems to be one of the keys to success in reducing SCS. I've found that any time the book can move around inside the well, it increases the likelihood of SCS. And properly heat sealing the well is also a must. In many of these SCS situations, it appears the comic is sliding out through the bottom of the well. This would indicate to me the book or books have been shipped in an upright position and the box they were shipped in was dropped upright onto a hard surface (in my experience, the book will move toward the edge where the impact occurs). If there are multiple impacts, the book could experience multiple traumatic episodes. 

In my view, there is more than one factor at play here. I believe it's a combination of an inefficient inner well, an ineffective heat seal, an insufficient amount of packing material, and an overextended shipping system. Not a good scenario for fragile books with a limited lifespan...

Thanks for the insider info.

On the larger orders, was there any bubble wrap/packing peanuts under the books or was it basically 2 layers of cardboard at the bottom? 

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5 minutes ago, bc said:

Thanks for the insider info.

On the larger orders, was there any bubble wrap/packing peanuts under the books or was it basically 2 layers of cardboard at the bottom? 

You're welcome.

From what I recall, heavy cardboard would be used on the bottom, because you'd want the insert and the books to stay even and level...

Edited by The Lions Den
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19 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

You're welcome.

From what I recall, heavy cardboard would be used at the bottom, because you'd want the insert and the books to stay even and level...

While that would indeed keep the books even and level, it doesn't provide any transfer of force (or protection from shock) like bubble wrap or packing peanuts :(

And your comment about a combination of factors is likely as we don't see this on a regular basis.

 

Edited by bc
grammar failure #2,989
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41 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

On larger orders, what I remember doing is placing a square cardboard insert into the box first, which effectively separated the books from the edges of the box.

Unfortunately, in the last two years, CGC switched to a much cheaper boxing source, and the original heavy duty cardboard boxes are a thing of the past. The "new" boxes are flimsy and useless after a single shipment. This was clearly a cost-cutting measure.

I have voiced my complaints about that to the powers-that-be, but it's been ignored thus far. 

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1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Unfortunately, in the last two years, CGC switched to a much cheaper boxing source, and the original heavy duty cardboard boxes are a thing of the past. The "new" boxes are flimsy and useless after a single shipment. This was clearly a cost-cutting measure.

I have voiced my complaints about that to the powers-that-be, but it's been ignored thus far. 

One thing I always liked about CGC's packaging was the heavy duty boxes, and their tendency to use healthy quantities of bubble wrap and thick cardboard to help protect the slabs from shipping damage. This factor alone could be leading to a noticeable increase in SCS...  :whatthe:

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4 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:
1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Unfortunately, in the last two years, CGC switched to a much cheaper boxing source, and the original heavy duty cardboard boxes are a thing of the past. The "new" boxes are flimsy and useless after a single shipment. This was clearly a cost-cutting measure.

I have voiced my complaints about that to the powers-that-be, but it's been ignored thus far. 

One thing I always liked about CGC's packaging was the heavy duty boxes, and their tendency to use healthy quantities of bubble wrap and thick cardboard to help protect the slabs from shipping damage. This factor alone could be leading to a noticeable increase in SCS...  :whatthe:

The heavy duty boxes were so heavy duty, they could be (and were) used multiple times. An old box could fit an entire short box "in the space" for the slabs, and still be protected on all 6 sides, and could be used 3-4-5 or more times. The new boxes are single use (if that) and done. 

I very much miss the old boxes, and very much wish CGC would go back to them.

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On 5/30/2019 at 8:18 PM, JWKyle said:

@LordRahl Sorry for the destruction of the book. I wonder what days these books showing SCS were graded if it's a date range sort of thing. Makes you wonder if CGC has someone new on the inner wells where they're leaving to much play between the sides of the book and the sides of the wells 

I would say this is certainly a possibility...

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2 hours ago, bc said:

Thanks for the insider info.

On the larger orders, was there any bubble wrap/packing peanuts under the books or was it basically 2 layers of cardboard at the bottom? 

Just had 2 shipments of 9-10books come back. Here is a what is looked like

There was also a top piece same thickness as on the sides.

 

IMG_20190601_133221965.jpg

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1 minute ago, csaag said:

Just had 2 shipments of 9-10books come back. Here is a what is looked like

There was also a top piece same thickness as on the sides.

 

IMG_20190601_133221965.jpg

Thanks for the pic!

Does it also have the "spacer" cardboard at the bottom?

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hold on - I never checked the bottom ......yup one there also

None of the slabs in either boxed appeared damaged in the least to me

 

I did have a single book come back that was wrapped in some heavy bubble wrap in a basic box.  That too was OK

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That honeycomb cardboard is pretty heavy duty stuff. It has some very desirable deceleration properties (after reading a few papers on it) - not to mention an outstanding Edge Crush Test (ECT) score.

Can't find any engineering studies on the CGC cases to determine an acceptable level of deceleration and that would vary based on the inner well type and sealing technique.

So basically the SCS books are getting a "concussion".

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I just got a $1k book that I purchased in the mail, and it came in with SCS.  I'm hoping not too serious, but you can see a 1/16-1/8" slippage in the book from the cover.  I probably won't know the whole story unless I crack it out.

I guess I need to not buy books that are in the new slabs anymore.  Is there a quick way to tell which slab version you are working with, so that I can avoid them?

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48 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

I just got a $1k book that I purchased in the mail, and it came in with SCS.  I'm hoping not too serious, but you can see a 1/16-1/8" slippage in the book from the cover.  I probably won't know the whole story unless I crack it out.

I guess I need to not buy books that are in the new slabs anymore.  Is there a quick way to tell which slab version you are working with, so that I can avoid them?

Best I could find for you:

I have no idea why that post is showcased....

 

Edited by bc
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5 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Unfortunately, in the last two years, CGC switched to a much cheaper boxing source, and the original heavy duty cardboard boxes are a thing of the past. The "new" boxes are flimsy and useless after a single shipment. This was clearly a cost-cutting measure.

I have voiced my complaints about that to the powers-that-be, but it's been ignored thus far. 

I've done the same. I got zero response. Even taking the book count down to 20 in the box and shoving a ton of bubble wrap on all sides still leads to slabs getting cracked etc every single time. 

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1 hour ago, bc said:

Best I could find for you:

I have no idea why that post is showcased....

 

Thanks - basically, the new version has the PQ in the white grading box - that's the slabs I'll be looking to avoid.

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Can someone show me a pic of the slabs?

I swear to God and :censored: that I just tore a Teen Titans 12 9.8 out of the bubble wrap and I literally heard a thud from inside the slab.

I thoroughly examined it and there doesn't look like any damage.

Edited by Hollywood1892
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