Why Has Thou Boards Failed Me ??? 0

[Cat-Man_America]

20 hours ago, showcase22gr1959 said:

Action Comics 1 on the newsstand cover dated May 1938 with approximate print run of 250,000.

Detective Comics 27 on the newsstand cover dated May 1938, a good estimate would be around 350,000-450,000.

I suspect with Superman gaining popularity, they would print a bit more Detective Comics 27 introducing Bat-Man. Action Comics 12

was on the newsstand same time as Detective Comics 27 and both books pre-date Superman 1 by a few months. 

Action #1 - June '38 cover date

Detective #27 - May '39 cover date

The estimate of 350,000 to 450,000 seems way too high based on the evidence.

21 hours ago, Turnando said:

Less than 709,379

http://blog.comichron.com/2009/06/detective-comics-sales-in-1940s.html?m=1

This was divided up among at least four titles in the Detective Comics Group as mentioned in the article.  A reasonable assumption would be under 200,000 copies of #27 even if Detective was the best seller of that group.  A more practical method of figuring out approximately how many copies of Detective Comics #27 were published would be to establish how many titles under the Detective Comics Group umbrella were published around the time Detective Comics #27 came out.  Then research publishing data (net number of books sold) for the Detective Comics Group for one pay cycle from May or May/June '39 ...dependent upon D.C.'s accounting system... and divide the total books published in that period by the number of titles under the DCG umbrella to get a rough estimate of newsstand copies for any given title.

Simple, huh? 

Keep in mind that there was no assurance at the time of publication that The Bat-Man would be a hit (the actual numbers printed should reflect that).  D.C. already tried out a masked, caped hero in 'Tec with the ominous name The Crimson Avenger.  While it's pretty clear that the earlier pulpy character was heavily based on successful .45 wielding pulp heroes like The Shadow and The Spider, TCA never caught on.  BTW, it's worth noting that the sole Crimson Avenger cover (Detective Comics #22) apparently has redacted art to remove a second .45 automatic from the hero's right hand.  I suspect this was an editorial decision to reduce obvious comparisons with The Shadow or to lower the bloodthirsty look of the character.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Cat-Man_America

[showcase22gr1959]

2 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

Action #1 - June '38 cover date

Detective #27 - May '39 cover date

The estimate of 350,000 to 450,000 seems way too high based on the evidence.

This was divided up among at least four titles in the Detective Comics Group as mentioned in the article.  A reasonable assumption would be under 200,000 copies of #27 even if Detective was the best seller of that group.  A more practical method of figuring out approximately how many copies of Detective Comics #27 were published would be to establish how many titles under the Detective Comics Group umbrella were published around the time Detective Comics #27 came out.  Then research publishing data (net number of books sold) for the Detective Comics Group for one pay cycle from May or May/June '39 ...dependent upon D.C.'s accounting system... and divide the total books published in that period by the number of titles under the DCG umbrella to get a rough estimate of newsstand copies for any given title.

Simple, huh? 

Keep in mind that there was no assurance at the time of publication that The Bat-Man would be a hit (the actual numbers printed should reflect that).  D.C. already tried out a masked, caped hero in 'Tec with the ominous name The Crimson Avenger.  While it's pretty clear that the earlier pulpy character was heavily based on successful .45 wielding pulp heroes like The Shadow and The Spider, TCA never caught on.  BTW, it's worth noting that the sole Crimson Avenger cover (Detective Comics #22) apparently has redacted art to remove a second .45 automatic from the hero's right hand.  I suspect this was an editorial decision to reduce obvious comparisons with The Shadow or to lower the bloodthirsty look of the character.

I have  provided a reasonable estimate for Detective Comics 27. We can place a plus or minus 50K print run in the range of my estimate on this book.  DC (National Comics) didn’t have Superman on it’s Action Comics cover again until issue 7.  His popularity gained transaction and his cover appearance starred more often. National Comics began to have Superman on the covers more frequently with Action Comics issue 10,13,15,17, and ultimately on all covers starting with 19.  Starting with Action Comics 10, they already knew Superman sales was increasing the titles sales. It’s safe to say by the time Action 11/12 National Comics, decided to ultimately gamble on introducing Batman about a year after Action Comics 1. With the Data they had, printing another 50-100k was not a big gamble for introducing another Superheroes with a cape. Even 50-100k is not substantial bigger print run than Action 1. Compared to the print runs of  Marvel Comics 1, Superman 1, or Captain America; Action Comics 1 and Detective Comics 27 is no competition.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Do you guys have a feel for whether Adventure or Detective was more popular in the early days?

[Cat-Man_America]

1 hour ago, showcase22gr1959 said:

I have  provided a reasonable estimate for Detective Comics 27. We can place a plus or minus 50K print run in the range of my estimate on this book.  DC (National Comics) didn’t have Superman on it’s Action Comics cover again until issue 7.  His popularity gained transaction and his cover appearance starred more often. National Comics began to have Superman on the covers more frequently with Action Comics issue 10,13,15,17, and ultimately on all covers starting with 19.  Starting with Action Comics 10, they already knew Superman sales was increasing the titles sales. It’s safe to say by the time Action 11/12 National Comics, decided to ultimately gamble on introducing Batman about a year after Action Comics 1. With the Data they had, printing another 50-100k was not a big gamble for introducing another Superheroes with a cape. Even 50-100k is not substantial bigger print run than Action 1. Compared to the print runs of  Marvel Comics 1, Superman 1, or Captain America; Action Comics 1 and Detective Comics 27 is no competition.

Yeah, he was called The Crimson Avenger, cover featured on Detective Comics #22, December 1938, approximately six months after Action #1 featured Superman.  By then, the data would've been available.  Obviously, that costumed hero failed to satisfy expectations of the publisher, so five issues later they tried another with a tad more success.  

I'm not contesting your estimate, but without concrete data to bolster it the numbers are certainly open to speculation.  

 

[1950's war comics]

[Primetime]

53 minutes ago, HouseofComics.Com said:

Do you guys have a feel for whether Adventure or Detective was more popular in the early days?

pre Bat days, I'd say Adventure was slightly more popular. Bat-Man of course changed that. 

[Cat-Man_America]

6 minutes ago, Primetime said:

pre Bat days, I'd say Adventure was slightly more popular. Bat-Man of course changed that. 

Oh, I think there's a lot to like about pre-Bat 'Tec for Sax Rohmer fans...  

[Primetime]

7 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said:

Oh, I think there's a lot to like about pre-Bat 'Tec for Sax Rohmer fans...  

i prefer Pre Bat covers of course, but I think the Adventures may sold better in that time period...just my speculation  

[Chicago Boy]

1 hour ago, Cat-Man_America said:

Yeah, he was called The Crimson Avenger, cover featured on Detective Comics #22, December 1938, approximately six months after Action #1 featured Superman.  By then, the data would've been available.  Obviously, that costumed hero failed to satisfy expectations of the publisher, so five issues later they tried another with a tad more success.  

I'm not contesting your estimate, but without concrete data to bolster it the numbers are certainly open to speculation.  

 

Would love to keep this thread moving with the uncovering of more concrete data. I myself am speculating  at the 200-350 range at this point. Maybe surviving copies are a hint ? Do estimated surviving copies equal est. surviving copies of Action 1 ?  I’ve heard both yes and speculation of 100 more 

[showcase22gr1959]

4 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

Yeah, he was called The Crimson Avenger, cover featured on Detective Comics #22, December 1938, approximately six months after Action #1 featured Superman.  By then, the data would've been available.  Obviously, that costumed hero failed to satisfy expectations of the publisher, so five issues later they tried another with a tad more success.  

I'm not contesting your estimate, but without concrete data to bolster it the numbers are certainly open to speculation.  

 

Fair enough.

Base on the date for Detective Comics #22, December 1938, that will be the same time as Action Comics 7. I would suspect the print run of Action Comics 7-12 be higher than Detective Comics #22-27, and the print run of Detective Comics #22-27 will be higher than Action Comics 1-6. So the estimate print run of 300-350K for Detective 27 is in reason plus or minus 50K.

[Sqeggs]

On 1/11/2019 at 7:06 PM, Chicago Boy said:

On 1/11/2019 at 5:20 PM, Turnando said:

Less than 709,379

http://blog.comichron.com/2009/06/detective-comics-sales-in-1940s.html?m=1

And it takes a guy with only 13 posts......

Thank you Turnado for what appears to be an excellent reference piece and welcome to the Boards !!!!!

He doesn't post much, but when he does, he makes them count!

That's something I should learn to do. 

[Sqeggs]

On 1/11/2019 at 7:33 PM, MrBedrock said:

You didn't need me after all. 

Of course, we need you.  The Christmas lights still haven't come down, the oil in the snowblower should be changed, and don't get me started on the mess in the garage. Plenty to do!