Heritage Feb 2019 Auction
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5 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

To varying degrees every comic ever published has been exposed to some moisture.

Especially over the last 2 decades...

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Amazing superman books....WOW

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1 hour ago, Timely said:

To varying degrees, 99% of them do, whether on the cover, back cover or page edges. But, I will say some only have a few spots of foxing while some are quite excessive.

Neither of the Larson copies I own ...Marvel Mystery #3 & 7... have rust and the PQ graded much better than one would expect for books kept in a barn.  As for foxing, what does one expect on a farm. If there was a chicken coop anywhere near these books, there's gonna be foxing! 

Since Lamont's collection wasn't maintained under ideal conditions, that just means each book has to be assessed on it's own merits.  It's a shame about the MM #8 though.  As Neil Young once said, rust never sleeps.

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4 hours ago, MrBedrock said:
4 hours ago, Timely said:

Out of the 1000 or so Larson Copies, only a few have graded higher than 9.2. While I agree many are lower grade due to handling defects, most IMO are not in the 9.4+  range due to the conditions they were exposed to, regardless of other additional handling defects they incurred.

You have handled more Larsons than probably anyone. You have to admit that saying 99% of them have moisture damage, even as just your opinion, is misleading.

This discussion here reminded me of a Larson article written by Pat Kochanek on the Larson Collection back in the Pedigree issue of CBM #32.  Looks like he said the average condition of the books in the collection was about Fine + with white pages if strictly graded or about half to a full grade lower than the condition listed in the original Larson List that came out.  Personally, I though most of the Larson books which I have seen for sale in the various auctions were in the VF- to VF range or thereabouts. (shrug)

Kochanek goes on to state in his article that there were some high grade copies among some of the early key first issues.  Cross referencing the books which he had mentioned with the HG's listed in the Larson List would indicate uber high grade copies of All-Star 1, More Fun 52 & 53, USA 1, and Wonderworld 3 since all of these books were listed as NM/M in the Larson List.  Besides the ones mentioned by Kochanek above, a quick perusal of the Larson List also indicated several other NM/M copies of key or semi-key first issues such as All-American 1, All-Flash 1, Catman 1, Exciting 1, Fantastic 1 (Mint), Marvel Mystery 1*, Pep 1, and Thrilling 1.  Besides these NM/M copies, it looks like there were several other key first issues listed as being in NM condition.  :whatthe:  :cloud9:

Just wondering if anybody here has come across these supposedly uber HG key Larson books and if they actually stand up to the test of time from a condition grading point of view and if they would make it past West's tough to achieve 9.2 grade?  hm

Edited by lou_fine

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15 hours ago, Mr. Lady Luck said:

Yes, I completely agree. Am I the only one who finds this more disturbing than exciting? :S

Yes, and CGC overlooks pressing-related damage, like stress around the staples and shrunken covers, and gives books higher grades even when they look worse. Even before the CPR craze, though, you had guys who would submit the same book over and over again until it got a gift grade.

Edited by jimbo_7071

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11 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Even before the CPR craze, though, you had guys who would submit the same book over and over again until it got a gift grade.

And they would submit it In Person, challenging them face to face. 

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I miss my Larson Thrilling 11.  That was a beaut.

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4 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Even before the CPR craze, though, you had guys who would submit the same book over and over again until it got a gift grade.

You need to understand that this is a business after all and if you want to get your books graded "properly", you need to understand how the game is played and be willing to play according to their rules.  :devil:

It was clear that Doug knew this and was more than willing to get down and dirty and keep wallowing around in the mud of the pig pen until his Pacific Coast copy of X-Men 1 eventually got the bump from a CGC 9.6 up to a CGC 9.8.  :censored:

It's really imperative and up to each individual to understand the rules of the game and then decide if they want to play the game or not. hm

Edited by lou_fine

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3 hours ago, nearmint said:

I miss my Larson Thrilling 11.  That was a beaut.

I've seen it from your scans posted here and I certainly can't blame you for missing it.  :luhv:

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14 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Cross referencing the books which he had mentioned with the HG's listed in the Larson List would indicate uber high grade copies of All-Star 1, More Fun 52

 

14 hours ago, lou_fine said:

a quick perusal of the Larson List also indicated several other NM/M copies of key or semi-key first issues such as All-American 1, All-Flash 1, Catman 1, Exciting 1, Fantastic 1

The Larson More Fun 52 (9.2) and Fantastic 1 (9.4) have been in past Heritage auctions.

Interesting, Heritage's archives is only showing five Larson copies in 9.4 and nothing higher (and 2 of the 5 are either Qualified or Apparent 9.4s)

image.png.45f8df4afd4c800c2ccbd12d318d817b.png

image.png.531a9d8744f2f94797744546dc172216.png

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On 1/15/2019 at 8:43 PM, AJD said:

So I can look forward to receiving my "bumper book of comics you'll never own" from Heritage? One of these days they'll realise I never buy anything in these auctions and stop sending them. lol 

They can dream can't they?

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21 hours ago, Timely said:

Out of the 1000 or so Larson Copies, only a few have graded higher than 9.2. While I agree many are lower grade due to handling defects, most IMO are not in the 9.4+  range due to the conditions they were exposed to, regardless of other additional handling defects they incurred.

There are a few purrdy ones out there. 

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3 hours ago, DanCooper said:

 

The Larson More Fun 52 (9.2) and Fantastic 1 (9.4) have been in past Heritage auctions.

Interesting, Heritage's archives is only showing five Larson copies in 9.4 and nothing higher (and 2 of the 5 are either Qualified or Apparent 9.4s)

image.png.45f8df4afd4c800c2ccbd12d318d817b.png

image.png.531a9d8744f2f94797744546dc172216.png

Man those books are beyond insane!

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14 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:
On 1/16/2019 at 4:00 AM, Mr. Lady Luck said:

Yes, I completely agree. Am I the only one who finds this more disturbing than exciting? :S

Yes, and CGC overlooks pressing-related damage, like stress around the staples and shrunken covers, and gives books higher grades even when they look worse.

Not sure if this is still happening or not, but you must be referring to the time a couple years back when the personnel changetoo place at CCS and CGC.  

Yes, as a few threads had pointed out at the time, it was quite evident that a free grading pass was being given to books that had signature pressing defects coming from their sister company at the time.  What made it worse though, was that books which had other signs of pressing, but without the more significant pressing defects were then apparently being hammered for their slight tell tale pressing signs.  Not sure if this problem still persists to a lesser extent or is this is simply the new normal now and part of the money game.  (shrug)

I guess it did prove one thing though, it certainly confirmed the board members initial suspicions here about potential conflict of interest when CCG combined both CCS and CGC under the same ownership umbrella.  :devil:  :censored:

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1 minute ago, lou_fine said:

Not sure if this is still happening or not, but you must be referring to the time a couple years back when the personnel changetoo place at CCS and CGC.  

Yes, as a few threads had pointed out at the time, it was quite evident that a free grading pass was being given to books that had signature pressing defects coming from their sister company at the time.  What made it worse though, was that books which had other signs of pressing, but without the more significant pressing defects were then apparently being hammered for their slight tell tale pressing signs.  Not sure if this problem still persists to a lesser extent or is this is simply the new normal now and part of the money game.  (shrug)

I guess it did prove one thing though, it certainly confirmed the board members initial suspicions here about potential conflict of interest when CCG combined both CCS and CGC under the same ownership umbrella.  :devil:  :censored:

So you’ve mentioned some of the signs of pressing: staple stress and shrunken covers. Are there other signs I should look for?

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4 hours ago, DanCooper said:

The Larson More Fun 52 (9.2) and Fantastic 1 (9.4) have been in past Heritage auctions.

Interesting, Heritage's archives is only showing five Larson copies in 9.4 and nothing higher (and 2 of the 5 are either Qualified or Apparent 9.4s)

I already knew about the Larson copy of Fantastic Comics 1.  (thumbsu

Interesting to note that it looks like only 2 of the supposedly NM/M Larson copies have shown up in the marketplace to date.  Especially considering that there were a baker's dozen of the early key first issues that I was able to find in my quick perusal of the Larson List.  I assume they must still be locked away in private collections for now.  hm

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4 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

So you’ve mentioned some of the signs of pressing: staple stress and shrunken covers. Are there other signs I should look for?

Those pressing defect signs were actually pointed out by jimbo in his original post and I was simply responding. :gossip:

Unfortunately, I am probably the worst person to ask about the detailed technicals of grading since I tend to base my purchasing decision on the overall visual appearance of the book and how it presents relative to grade, as opposed to barely perceptible tiny little defects.

To each their own, but I am definitely much more of an old school type of collector as opposed to the current CGC generation of speculator/investor who seems to be in it more for the CPR game in a lot of cases. 

 

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25 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Those pressing defect signs were actually pointed out by jimbo in his original post and I was simply responding. :gossip:

Unfortunately, I am probably the worst person to ask about the detailed technicals of grading since I tend to base my purchasing decision on the overall visual appearance of the book and how it presents relative to grade, as opposed to barely perceptible tiny little defects.

To each their own, but I am definitely much more of an old school type of collector as opposed to the current CGC generation of speculator/investor who seems to be in it more for the CPR game in a lot of cases. 

 

Well that is to your credit

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Just now, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Well that is to your credit

There is a long list of damage created by pressing especially when done improperly.

shrunken cover syndrome also known as Costaza books. 

Pen/grease pencil bleeding, some good before and after of pedegree books experiences this have been posted before

sunk stapled  this is where the book is pressed aggressively enough that the staples start to pull into the cover  also some good before and after of this have been posted

staple tears  similar to the previous item but you have small tears at the staples

cover re-wrap  this is where someone inject a spine roll to push spine defects to the back cover where they are graded less harshly. Good post of an Avengers 1 having this treatment  

I could go on but short of time  

 

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