Best of........ Future (Feedback) 2 2

[Brian Peck]

Thanks to everyone who entered and voted in the Best of 2018. Loved seeing the wide variety of artwork. So many pieces I missed during the year, glad I had a 2nd chance to see them.

In past years I have solicited feedback from collectors on changes they would like to have for the Best of. Unfortunately, life and other things get in the way and usually don'tt end up considering changes until the nest "Best of" rolls around. This year Bill mentioned wanting to try and expand the Best of to bring more collectors. I will be talking with Bill about broadening the appeal. But I first had some ideas on enhancements to entries and voting. Open to all feedback, in regards to the categories any changes can't be subjective (value: above or below a certain $$$ amount) and need to have more clear cut boundaries (type or time).

 

1. Ability to add "Best of" entries from owner's CAF galleries (just like Featured Gallery pieces)

2. During "Best of" in each category (Covers, Splashes, Panels etc.) ability to move to between each entry without having to go back to the main category page. 

      "Previous Items"    "Next Item"

3. Breakup Covers, Splashes/Pinups, Panel Pages categories by time periods. Covers (Pre-1990), Covers (1990 and later), Splashes/Pinups (Pre-1990), Splashes/Pinups (1990 and later), Panel Pages (Pre-1990), Panel Pages (1990 and later)

      Covers, Splashes/Pinups, Panel Pages categories either had close to 100 entries each (some more). The additional 5 categories are much less and don't need to be broken down more. 

      Since many collectors core focus is usually fall into one of the two time periods "Pre-1990" and "1990 and later", creating the two sub-categories for would open up more voting and the art in each category would have more in common (ex. pre-1990 has word balloons, post-1990 lacks word balloons, cover with and without trade dress etc.)

 

Let me know what your ideas.

 

 

[Rick2you2]

5 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

Thanks to everyone who entered and voted in the Best of 2018. Loved seeing the wide variety of artwork. So many pieces I missed during the year, glad I had a 2nd chance to see them.

In past years I have solicited feedback from collectors on changes they would like to have for the Best of. Unfortunately, life and other things get in the way and usually don'tt end up considering changes until the nest "Best of" rolls around. This year Bill mentioned wanting to try and expand the Best of to bring more collectors. I will be talking with Bill about broadening the appeal. But I first had some ideas on enhancements to entries and voting. Open to all feedback, in regards to the categories any changes can't be subjective (value: above or below a certain $$$ amount) and need to have more clear cut boundaries (type or time).

 

1. Ability to add "Best of" entries from owner's CAF galleries (just like Featured Gallery pieces)

2. During "Best of" in each category (Covers, Splashes, Panels etc.) ability to move to between each entry without having to go back to the main category page. 

      "Previous Items"    "Next Item"

3. Breakup Covers, Splashes/Pinups, Panel Pages categories by time periods. Covers (Pre-1990), Covers (1990 and later), Splashes/Pinups (Pre-1990), Splashes/Pinups (1990 and later), Panel Pages (Pre-1990), Panel Pages (1990 and later)

      Covers, Splashes/Pinups, Panel Pages categories either had close to 100 entries each (some more). The additional 5 categories are much less and don't need to be broken down more. 

      Since many collectors core focus is usually fall into one of the two time periods "Pre-1990" and "1990 and later", creating the two sub-categories for would open up more voting and the art in each category would have more in common (ex. pre-1990 has word balloons, post-1990 lacks word balloons, cover with and without trade dress etc.)

 

Let me know what your ideas.

 

 

If you are going to break up categories by age, I would probably draw a line at 1970. Then, 1970-1990, etc. Golden age and most silver age art just isn't the same as newer art, which I think began to show significant change around 1968 or so. 

[Pete Marino]

I think if you're going to split art up it should be in easier to differentiate eras, based on how the art was produced.

Double-up era (i don't know exactly when they transitioned over to 1.5 up)

11x17 with hand lettering on the page era

and then around 2000 when they moved to digital lettering

[RabidFerret]

Quick other thoughts - 

1) We could name the awards the Lowrys

2) remove owner names so people vote based on art, not owner

3) save historical results

4) items that win the vote get a flag on the art similar to when art is featured on the site

[BCarter27]

1 hour ago, RabidFerret said:

Quick other thoughts - 

1) We could name the awards the Lowrys

2) remove owner names so people vote based on art, not owner

3) save historical results

4) items that win the vote get a flag on the art similar to when art is featured on the site

These are all great ideas that I would second. The owner names might be hard to obfuscate on headline pieces, but I still think it would help focus on the art.

9 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

Ability to add "Best of" entries from owner's CAF galleries (just like Featured Gallery pieces)

This too. Why upload twice? But in the Lowry voting view, the description would be hidden. Again, to let the art speak for itself.

The fewer categories the better, but...

3 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

If you are going to break up categories by age, I would probably draw a line at 1970.

I agree with this. A cutoff of 1970 makes more sense than 1990 in value and style.

 

What about lifting the 5-vote limit? This is always a chore getting down from my 10 or so selects to 5. More of the middle of the pack would get votes instead of just the obvious top 5 Kirby and Ditko pieces (which historically dominate their categories because of the demographic.)

[alxjhnsn]

A few thoughts:

• Minimize the effort required to enter
  • I'd prefer to have a button appear on the CAF items posted during 2018 that allows me to enter it with one click. It would remove the oldest Lowry entry auto-magically.
• Minimize the effort to vote.
  • Navigation improvements
  • I find myself opening several on my first pass. It would be sweet to have a panel where I can "send" the interesting ones and have those images enlarge to closer viewing.
  • Building on that "panel" concept, I'd like to be able to order them and hit one button to vote.
• Minimize the effort to put a comment on the item in its CAF Gallery as opposed to the Lowry.
  • There should be a link that takes you to the original or the original is what we see in the Lowry.

I don't pay attention to the owner name during voting, but if it's a problem to people, I don't care if it's dropped, but I would would it to be retained on the winner's list.

Historical data would be great.

The flag would be fun especially if we could search on it (year, category, flag) from the main page.

Hope this is useful.

[eewwnuk]

ease of participation is the biggest factor.  should be just one click or one drop down to add something.

perhaps also having a separate section for lowry - having it buried in the galleries makes it out of sight, out of mind.

more categories imo makes it more tedious.  what you want is easier.  maybe take out some of the categories that aren't popular and replace them with something else.

[Brian Peck]

7 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

If you are going to break up categories by age, I would probably draw a line at 1970. Then, 1970-1990, etc. Golden age and most silver age art just isn't the same as newer art, which I think began to show significant change around 1968 or so. 

I dont want to break the categories down too small. Breaking them at 1990 is a good point since thats close to where technology starts to effect the comic art originals. No word ballons, digital inks or more inks over bluelines.

[Bird]

I like Alex's suggestions. I also like it being limited in items and votes as it is now. It SHOULD be hard to vote, we are splitting hairs here so you should think about it carefully not willy-nilly.

[Michael Browning]

The best idea is to remove the owner's name. I know there are some voters who vote specifically for art owned by friends and not for art owned by people they don't like.

[Rick2you2]

4 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

I dont want to break the categories down too small. Breaking them at 1990 is a good point since thats close to where technology starts to effect the comic art originals. No word ballons, digital inks or more inks over bluelines.

But the art, at least the panel art, was changing. The classic 6 panel, with variations, was really being pushed hard by then with much more innovative use of panel design to tell stories. Go back beforehand and look how rarely you saw half-splashes, for example. Yes, I know artists did that before, including Kirby and Anderson, but there seemed to be a lot more breathing space and creativity to the pages after around 1970 which works to the detriment of earlier artists and the quality of their more confined illustrations. 

[BCarter27]

4 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

but there seemed to be a lot more breathing space and creativity to the pages after around 1970 which works to the detriment of earlier artists and the quality of their more confined illustrations. 

Two words... Kneel Atoms. He changed everything. Aesthetically that's why I think 1970 is a good cutoff. There was also more art going back to the artists in the 70s and after. Still, Kirby and Ditko are always going to smash all other entrants unless they are put in their own pre-1070 category or the vote cap is lifted.

Edited January 25, 2019 by BCarter27

[Rick2you2]

6 hours ago, BCarter27 said:

Two words... Kneel Atoms. He changed everything. Aesthetically that's why I think 1970 is a good cutoff. There was also more art going back to the artists in the 70s and after. Still, Kirby and Ditko are always going to smash all other entrants unless they are put in their own pre-1070 category or the vote cap is lifted.

I agree it was Adams impact, but I didn't want to add that because it may have sounded a little too fawning. Deadman and GL/GA was breakthrough stuff. 

Honestly, while I appreciate their work, Kirby and Ditko had their limitations (as do all artists). I would like to see some of the older pieces by EC artists or Eisner or Raboy or Crandall, for examples, get a shot at winning.

[timguerrero]

Breaking by age seems appropriate. I would add that the Best of needs a category were you only vote for art that has been published in the last year. The results are not very indicative of preference if I am comparing a page published last year with a Kirby page. 

Uploading to the Best of should be more simple. This was my first year participating and I hard a hard time completing all the steps necessary for me my pieces to participate.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/24/2019 at 1:14 AM, Brian Peck said:

Thanks to everyone who entered and voted in the Best of 2018. Loved seeing the wide variety of artwork. So many pieces I missed during the year, glad I had a 2nd chance to see them.

In past years I have solicited feedback from collectors on changes they would like to have for the Best of. Unfortunately, life and other things get in the way and usually don'tt end up considering changes until the nest "Best of" rolls around. This year Bill mentioned wanting to try and expand the Best of to bring more collectors. I will be talking with Bill about broadening the appeal. But I first had some ideas on enhancements to entries and voting. Open to all feedback, in regards to the categories any changes can't be subjective (value: above or below a certain $$$ amount) and need to have more clear cut boundaries (type or time).

 

1. Ability to add "Best of" entries from owner's CAF galleries (just like Featured Gallery pieces)

2. During "Best of" in each category (Covers, Splashes, Panels etc.) ability to move to between each entry without having to go back to the main category page. 

      "Previous Items"    "Next Item"

3. Breakup Covers, Splashes/Pinups, Panel Pages categories by time periods. Covers (Pre-1990), Covers (1990 and later), Splashes/Pinups (Pre-1990), Splashes/Pinups (1990 and later), Panel Pages (Pre-1990), Panel Pages (1990 and later)

      Covers, Splashes/Pinups, Panel Pages categories either had close to 100 entries each (some more). The additional 5 categories are much less and don't need to be broken down more. 

      Since many collectors core focus is usually fall into one of the two time periods "Pre-1990" and "1990 and later", creating the two sub-categories for would open up more voting and the art in each category would have more in common (ex. pre-1990 has word balloons, post-1990 lacks word balloons, cover with and without trade dress etc.)

 

Let me know what your ideas.

 

 

I’d divorce it from being CAF dependant. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/26/2019 at 7:19 AM, timguerrero said:

 

Uploading to the Best of should be more simple. This was my first year participating and I hard a hard time completing all the steps necessary for me my pieces to participate.

This goes to my previous comment. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/24/2019 at 12:22 PM, eewwnuk said:

ease of participation is the biggest factor.  should be just one click or one drop down to add something.

perhaps also having a separate section for lowry - having it buried in the galleries makes it out of sight, out of mind.

more categories imo makes it more tedious.  what you want is easier.  maybe take out some of the categories that aren't popular and replace them with something else.

Yep. See my comment about divorcing it from being CAF dependant. That creates an ingrown bias toward people with large CAF galleries, or those who use CAF regularly. Most newer collectors don’t. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/24/2019 at 11:44 AM, alxjhnsn said:

A few thoughts:

• Minimize the effort required to enter
  • I'd prefer to have a button appear on the CAF items posted during 2018 that allows me to enter it with one click. It would remove the oldest Lowry entry auto-magically.
• Minimize the effort to vote.
  • Navigation improvements
  • I find myself opening several on my first pass. It would be sweet to have a panel where I can "send" the interesting ones and have those images enlarge to closer viewing.
  • Building on that "panel" concept, I'd like to be able to order them and hit one button to vote.
• Minimize the effort to put a comment on the item in its CAF Gallery as opposed to the Lowry.
  • There should be a link that takes you to the original or the original is what we see in the Lowry.

I don't pay attention to the owner name during voting, but if it's a problem to people, I don't care if it's dropped, but I would would it to be retained on the winner's list.

Historical data would be great.

The flag would be fun especially if we could search on it (year, category, flag) from the main page.

Hope this is useful.

Again. All of this requires using CAF’s somwhat cumbersome process. It should be separated from CAF in some way. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by PhilipB2k17

[Brian Peck]

2 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Again. All of this requires using CAF’s somwhat cumbersome process. It should be separated from CAF in some way. 

If you divorce it too much you wont make it any easier. I agree having a way to easily select it from its already displayed in your CAF gallery is simething I will speak to Bill about.

[PhilipB2k17]

19 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

If you divorce it too much you wont make it any easier. I agree having a way to easily select it from its already displayed in your CAF gallery is simething I will speak to Bill about.

What if you don't use CAF?