aokartman Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, ESeffinga said: Call me crazy, but at least as far as art goes, I much prefer the loose & smaller but, IMO much more accomplished Conan drawing to the blobbier, over-rendered random caveman piece. It shines in ways the caveman is awkward. Artists all have work when they are “on”, and for my Monopoly money, the Conan has “it” and the caveman does not. More lines, more detail and more ink doesn’t always = more better. So often, less is more. Even where Frazetta is concerned. And most artists will tell you, the artists that can convey the most with the simplest line are often the most accomplished. A small anecdote, I want to attribute but can’t recall where I read it, and so I am paraphrasing... An old story of an artist that was once confronted by someone who complained about what he was charging for his sumi-e ink drawing. The man said “it only took you a few minutes to draw that”, and the artist replied that it took him 35 years to draw it. My wife gets this question frequently. How long did it take you to paint that? She does realistic still life oil painting. Her answer is usually tempered by a reflection on how long she has worked to get this good, but ultimately buyers really want to know, actually how long? She now acknowledges her workplace schedules to collectors as best she can just to satisfy their curiosity. It is a place where a conversation can then continue, since everyone uses their time in a personal way. David Edited February 2, 2019 by aokartman pic added John E., Andahaion, Mighty Hal and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 7 hours ago, ESeffinga said: A small anecdote, I want to attribute but can’t recall where I read it, and so I am paraphrasing... An old story of an artist that was once confronted by someone who complained about what he was charging for his sumi-e ink drawing. The man said “it only took you a few minutes to draw that”, and the artist replied that it took him 35 years to draw it. This story is also attributed to Sergio Aragones, as retold by Mark Evanier (on his blog many years ago, iirc). But did it actually happen or is it an ancient parable type thing that Sergio co-opted or Mark inserted Sergio's participation to make the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aokartman Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 The point is that the artist has worked a lifetime, and should be credited with that experience when considering the "how long" question. It's a bit of an affront to the artist to suggest a work in question could be reduced to an hourly calculation, since the questioner likely couldn't do it ever, even if they tried. So, when the client is told the actual #, it can have a real multiplier effect, like, "Wow, you can do something in just a few hours that I will never be able to do." And then you can move on to the next topic, since the hourly calculation is exposed as a bit of a fraudulent approach to valuation in art. David emme_jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Marino Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, aokartman said: The point is that the artist has worked a lifetime, and should be credited with that experience when considering the "how long" question. It's a bit of an affront to the artist to suggest a work in question could be reduced to an hourly calculation, since the questioner likely couldn't do it ever, even if they tried. So, when the client is told the actual #, it can have a real multiplier effect, like, "Wow, you can do something in just a few hours that I will never be able to do." And then you can move on to the next topic, since the hourly calculation is exposed as a bit of a fraudulent approach to valuation in art. David I think this is so flawed. Artists are not unique. A Lawyer, Doctor, Scientist, heck any specialized professional that's spent years and years honing their skills has the same ability, yet is expected to also deliver on an hourly rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 But, the rates are higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emme_jay Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 2/2/2019 at 11:37 AM, batman_fan said: On 2/2/2019 at 11:34 AM, JadeGiant said: I think I agree. I shared the post as a recent asking price for a Frazetta sketch, not necessarily that it was the same, etc. It definitely helps to have a point of reference. I expect my drawing isn't worth nearly that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, emme_jay said: Its a nice pose. I hope you can lock down the province. emme_jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emme_jay Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 2/2/2019 at 11:56 AM, aokartman said: On 2/2/2019 at 5:11 AM, ESeffinga said: My wife gets this question frequently. How long did it take you to paint that? She does realistic still life oil painting. Her answer is usually tempered by a reflection on how long she has worked to get this good, but ultimately buyers really want to know, actually how long? She now acknowledges her workplace schedules to collectors as best she can just to satisfy their curiosity. It is a place where a conversation can then continue, since everyone uses their time in a personal way. David It would never occur to me too ask someone how long it takes to paint/create something. Then to try to equate the price with the amount of hours it took? Andahaion and Taylor G 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) On 1/25/2019 at 5:04 PM, emme_jay said: If I were you, I'd consult Russ Cochran. He brought a lot of these sketches directly to the market directly from Fritz. Edited February 10, 2019 by The Voord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) On 1/25/2019 at 8:22 PM, vodou said: The likelihood of this being fake is pretty high. Which is not to say it isn't authentic, it's just that there are a lot of fake Frazetta sketches out there some dating as early as the seventies. It was an industry even back when Fraz was at full strength and making plenty of them himself. Provenance, which it appears you do not have, would be very valuable. The CBCS aspect is essentially worthless (sorry). Maybe somebody that's more of an expert on Frank Frazetta's actual line can chime in more specifically, but without rock solid provenance and based on the above that I already know...I wouldn't pay anything for this. I hope it's real and that you can get that confirmed and get fair market for it. I lean towards what you're saying here. The work looks convincing but without cast-iron provenance there will always be an element of doubt (I'm not convinced either way). One of the reasons I suggested the OP consult Russ Cochran. Frazetta directly supplied these types of sketches to Cochran as his (then) agent for sale. Years ago, I remember Cochran advising that lots of fakes had entered the market . . . and because he'd handled enough real-deal artworks, he knew about things like the illustration paper Frazetta used. I'm looking at the photo the OP posted and it looks pristine on a large sheet of paper. Cochran's not infallible, but he or Doc Dave would be my first port-of-call for authentication. Edited February 11, 2019 by The Voord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emme_jay Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 17 hours ago, The Voord said: I'm looking at the photo the OP posted and it looks pristine on a large sheet of paper. The size is 10½ in. × 7¼ in. Is that considered a large sheet of paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emme_jay Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 On 2/10/2019 at 1:39 PM, The Voord said: If I were you, I'd consult Russ Cochran. He brought a lot of these sketches directly to the market directly from Fritz. How would I go about finding him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emme_jay Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 Spoiler 9 minutes ago, emme_jay said: How would I go about finding him? Nevermind, I found his website and Doc Dave's blog as well. The Voord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 4 hours ago, emme_jay said: The size is 10½ in. × 7¼ in. Is that considered a large sheet of paper? I was thinking more in terms of a small drawing in relation to the overall size of the paper.. Now that you've provided overall dimensions, no, it's not as large as I thought it *might* have been. In any case, now that you've located Russ and Doc Dave on the internet - they ought to provide you with better information, based on their Frazetta expertise. Keep us posted on any feedback you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emme_jay Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 On 2/12/2019 at 4:30 AM, The Voord said: I was thinking more in terms of a small drawing in relation to the overall size of the paper.. Now that you've provided overall dimensions, no, it's not as large as I thought it *might* have been. In any case, now that you've located Russ and Doc Dave on the internet - they ought to provide you with better information, based on their Frazetta expertise. Keep us posted on any feedback you get. Thanks for your help. I will. The Voord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
