The Artist's Choice Sale has started 0

[vodou]

1 minute ago, comix4fun said:

Spencer is extraordinarily professional. Don't confuse perfection with professionalism and don't confuse personality differences with professionalism. To suggest otherwise is placing personal preference and urges pointing towards feelings of entitlement ahead of reality. 

Frankly, you don't know how his business works. The assumptions that discrepancies between the site mechanics and inventory accuracy are due to a lack of professionalism, care or ability are just that..assumptions. Here's an example: You don't know if he retains all the inventory in his personal control, or if the artists do, or if it's a mix. You don't know how often those artists inform him if they've sold, traded, or taken a piece off the market. You don't know if the attribution of title, issue, or other identifier was mislabeled by the publisher or artist leading to errors in categorization and inventorying. 

Finally, I'd be wary of re-quoting commentary attributed to Spencer posted by someone who's admitted, repeatedly, that he'll never give up the ax grinds against Spencer. Even if the words are remotely accurate, they lack context (most likely intentionally), and are coming from a source who admits his own bias. I know if makes it easier for you to go on the attack but you're sacrificing something important in the exchange. 

Bro...skip the Sean quote, I'll grant that I wasn't there have no idea of sub-surface motivations...but everything else: 100% totally unprofessional. I'd be happy to read the replies of anybody other than yourself and similar "friends of Spencer" that disagree with me, as to the issues you yourself have stated directly above me in the quote. Anybody, is any of that: professional?

[Bird]

5 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Spencer is extraordinarily professional. Don't confuse perfection with professionalism and don't confuse personality differences with professionalism. To suggest otherwise is placing personal preference and urges pointing towards feelings of entitlement ahead of reality. 

Frankly, you don't know how his business works. The assumptions that discrepancies between the site mechanics and inventory accuracy are due to a lack of professionalism, care or ability are just that..assumptions. Here's an example: You don't know if he retains all the inventory in his personal control, or if the artists do, or if it's a mix. You don't know how often those artists inform him if they've sold, traded, or taken a piece off the market. You don't know if the attribution of title, issue, or other identifier was mislabeled by the publisher or artist leading to errors in categorization and inventorying that lay undiscovered until someone searches for that item. 

Finally, I'd be wary of re-quoting commentary attributed to Spencer posted by someone who's admitted, repeatedly, that he'll never give up the ax grinds against Spencer. Even if the words are remotely accurate, they lack context (most likely intentionally), and are coming from a source who admits his own bias. I know if makes it easier for you to go on the attack but you're sacrificing something important in the exch

 

 

Actually you totally miss characterizing my ax to grind as I never had one even when I first related the incident I said others who had good experiences with Spencer should continue to do business with him and that mine was only one experience it’s he who has the ax to grind not me

[comix4fun]

Just now, vodou said:

Bro...skip the Sean quote, I'll grant that I wasn't there have no idea of sub-surface motivations...but everything else: 100% totally unprofessional. I'd be happy to read the replies of anybody other than yourself and similar "friends of Spencer" that disagree with me, as to the issues you yourself have stated directly above me in the quote. Anybody, is any of that: professional?

 

I just have perspective. You can't undercut by analysis and dismiss me as a "friend of Spencer", even though that's a great go to move when you can't counter the rest of what was said. 

You say you deal with artwork sales on a site, right? How many pieces? How many individual, unique pieces, simultaneously? 

[comix4fun]

Just now, Bird said:

 

 

Actually you totally miss characterizing my ax to grind as I never had one even when I first related the incident I said others who had good experiences with Spencer should continue to do business with him and that mine was only one experience it’s he who has the ax to grind not me

Every. Single. Time. that there's a Spencer thread, you're there, relating/reviving/reliving your complaints, how bad it is to deal with him, how bad his site is...but other people think he's good and had good experiences. 

I don't go looking for your posts, but it's hard to miss them when Spencer is involved. 

[comix4fun]

Just now, Bird said:

Chris I long-ago gave up the ax and as I’ve mentioned repeatedly I told him who I was and we shook hands in person but as soon as I got home he started with the keyboard warrior thing again

 

See, you say this now...but this is what you said earlier

3 hours ago, Bird said:

Spencer and I got into it about 10 years ago over these very same issues. His response at one point was "its only comic books". I told him that no, it was money and customer service.

Different decade, same fustercluck!

See how that might sound a little like it's always sitting just below the surface for you ready to jump out when you see Spencer's name in a thread title, and you're ready to chop him down? 

It's like me with "the brothers"....but I admit it...and they actually deserve it. 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by comix4fun

[Bird]

 And every single time someone has to make posts for him but when things get bad he’ll suddenly show up I don’t wish anybody negative but I do think reality is important and if people are going to share their experiences sometimes I share mine I have skipped many of Spencer threads

[vodou]

1 minute ago, comix4fun said:

 

I just have perspective. You can't undercut by analysis and dismiss me as a "friend of Spencer", even though that's a great go to move when you can't counter the rest of what was said. 

You say you deal with artwork sales on a site, right? How many pieces? How many individual, unique pieces, simultaneously? 

I know where you stand, and that you're unlikely to change that stance. That's fine, but nothing new there. I'm looking for something new, to hear from somebody(s) else, as many as might post on the subject of: professionalism. That is all.

Inventory management...that's like, um, Retail Business 101

I see that you're shifting back to shades of ad hominem, since nothing "I" do or do not do (in any way, shape, or form) has anything to with Spencer's professionalism (duh!), all good but I see you coming

[comix4fun]

Just now, Bird said:

 And every single time someone has to make posts for him but when things get bad he’ll suddenly show up I don’t wish anybody negative but I do think reality is important and if people are going to share their experiences sometimes I share mine I have skipped many of Spencer threads

This is a dealer/rep/site announcement thread, it's stated plainly in the first post it's on his behalf, the threadcrapping is out of line, and I think you know that. 

The biggest complaint anyone should have here is that the post belongs in the marketplace area.

Or would you be ok with people going to the comic sales threads and making personal commentary about how unorganized they thought the seller was, or how they didn't like how they spoke to them, or emailed with them...having nothing to do with honestly?

[Bird]

 I will certainly admit to being disappointed this year when I went to his site after the sale  was announced 

I expected the improvements that have been touted but the first link I clicked on was a dead link 

This thread certainly has a different Tenor that it had in previous years I hope the site gets improved as it will benefit the hobby and I do wish that to happen

[comix4fun]

5 minutes ago, vodou said:

I know where you stand, and that you're unlikely to change that stance. That's fine, but nothing new there. I'm looking for something new, to hear from somebody(s) else, as many as might post on the subject of: professionalism. That is all.

Inventory management...that's like, um, Retail Business 101

I see that you're shifting back to shades of ad hominem, since nothing "I" do or do not do (in any way, shape, or form) has anything to with Spencer's professionalism (duh!), all good but I see you coming

 

First, the Ad Hominem begins with you categorizing my commentary as a "Friend of Spencer" and thus not worthy of individual consideration. Making a personal statement about someone as a means to attempt to discredit their commentary is pretty much textbook. 

My request as to how you handle your artwork inventory and sales and on what volume you do so is an attempt by me to discern where you are coming from with your analysis and labeling of Spencer, his business practices and his level of professionalism. 

I think it's valuable to know how people operate their own business when they are judging someone else's business. Knowing whether or not you're speaking from actual knowledge or experience and to what extent is a valuable piece to determine the level of weight to be given to your opinions. Since I don't want to simply dismiss everything you say out of hand.

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by comix4fun

[Bird]

15 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

This is a dealer/rep/site announcement thread, it's stated plainly in the first post it's on his behalf, the threadcrapping is out of line, and I think you know that. 

The biggest complaint anyone should have here is that the post belongs in the marketplace area.

Or would you be ok with people going to the comic sales threads and making personal commentary about how unorganized they thought the seller was, or how they didn't like how they spoke to them, or emailed with them...having nothing to do with honestly?

 And who showing their bias now Chris 

To be clear I didn’t know we ever emailed I don’t know that I’ve ever done business with you or spoken to you at all with apologies if your feelings were hurt or I was inappropriate

[comix4fun]

Just now, Bird said:

 And who showing their bias now Chris 

To be clear I didn’t know we ever emailed I don’t know that I’ve ever done business with you or spoken to you at all with apologies if your feelings were hurt or I was inappropriate

What?
You've never done anything wrong to me. I never said that. 

Read what I wrote again. I gave you an analogous example of what's occurring in this thread. This is a dealer/rep/site announcement thread....like a sales thread (even though this one is in the wrong place), people wouldn't think it was proper or correct to threadcrap all over those threads with complaints such as these. It's not allowed. 
I am not sure where you got that I was talking about you. I was showing how the commentary, in this setting was out of line, by comparison.

 

PS. I bought a lovely Basil Gogos signed magazine from you a few years ago and you were entirely lovely to deal with on all fronts.  

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by comix4fun

[Bird]

5 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

What?
You've never done anything wrong to me. I never said that. 

Read what I wrote again. I gave you an analogous example of what's occurring in this thread. This is a dealer/rep/site announcement thread....like a sales thread (even though this one is in the wrong place), people wouldn't think it was proper or correct to threadcrap all over those threads with complaints such as these. It's not allowed. 
I am not sure where you got that I was talking about you. I was showing how the commentary, in this setting was out of line, by comparison.

 

PS. I bought a lovely Basil Gogos signed magazine from you a few years ago and you were entirely lovely to deal with on all fronts.  

 

Fair enough I stand corrected I was once a very disorganized seller so I thought you might’ve been alluding to something in the past I’m glad to know that we’ve been good with each other

I didn’t think it was thread crapping in the beginning because like you say this isn’t in the marketplace and it wasn’t started by the artists choice I do see your point now though

[rrichards]

44 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Spencer is extraordinarily professional. Don't confuse perfection with professionalism and don't confuse personality differences with professionalism. To suggest otherwise is placing personal preference and urges pointing towards feelings of entitlement ahead of reality. 

Frankly, you don't know how his business works. The assumptions that discrepancies between the site mechanics and inventory accuracy are due to a lack of professionalism, care or ability are just that..assumptions. Here's an example: You don't know if he retains all the inventory in his personal control, or if the artists do, or if it's a mix. You don't know how often those artists inform him if they've sold, traded, or taken a piece off the market. You don't know if the attribution of title, issue, or other identifier was mislabeled by the publisher or artist leading to errors in categorization and inventorying that lay undiscovered until someone searches for that item. 

Finally, I'd be wary of re-quoting commentary attributed to Spencer posted by someone who's admitted, repeatedly, that he'll never give up the ax grinds against Spencer. Even if the words are remotely accurate, they lack context (most likely intentionally), and are coming from a source who admits his own bias. I know if makes it easier for you to go on the attack but you're sacrificing something important in the exchange. 

Listening to to commentary from members it seems that there are a number of issues with Spencer's site which I have also experienced first hand . I have heard that he is a great, honest, guy and I'm sure he is but the truth is that his site IS a mess with broken links ,many pages with out images and a huge number of pages that are not available. This is not a "extraordinarily professional" approach and the attitude that is projected  that he is very busy and that his time is so much more important than yours is not helping.

Having said that ,you can get some really great buys of comtemporary artwork if you want to put up with all of this .

My suggestion: Catch him at a convention when he usually comes with his available stock ,

[vodou]

4 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

 

First, the Ad Hominem begins with you categorizing my commentary as a "Friend of Spencer" and thus not worthy of individual consideration. Making a personal statement about someone as a means to attempt to discredit their commentary is pretty much textbook.

You're a Friend of Mike too. It's difficult for you (and similar Friends of respective and various dealers, as I call them) to criticize either Mike or Spencer and easy for you to dismiss their inadequacies. That's called bias, it's intellectually dishonest. The question is one of professionalism in isolation, not "who", and it should be applied evenly to "whomever"...to be intellectually honest, to be logical. So yes, I think such categorization by me of you is good and useful here, to identify your inherent logical weakness. Judge Mike or Spencer the same way you would any other customer service interaction you would have, big business or small, and then you can be back in the intellectually honest category

18 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

My request as to how you handle your artwork inventory and sales and on what volume you do so is an attempt by me to discern where you are coming from with your analysis and labeling of Spencer, his business practices and his level of professionalism. 

I think it's valuable to know how people operate their own business when they are judging someone else's business. Knowing whether or not you're speaking from actual knowledge or experience and to what extent is a valuable piece to determine the level of weight to be given to your opinions. Since I don't want to simply dismiss everything you say out of hand.

 

Unless you are putting it out there that I am dishonest, and willing to stand behind that based on (???), then I'm telling you (on my word) that I consider professionalism to be the most important aspect of any business, even at the cost of profit, even at the cost of going out of business for lack of profit. Do it right, or don't do it at all, that's my motto and it's always 100% scalable (meaning, no whining becuase it's like um hard.)

I run my business professionally and if I couldn't I wouldn't. That I continue to run it, says it all. That's the standard I judge others by. Many in the comic art space, but not all, fail.

Felix Lu does not fail.

Mitch Itkowitz does not fail.

Albert Moy does not fail.

Anthony Snyder does not fail.

Those are the folks I can observe from my keyboard, interact with in person at shows, by e-mail and phone, and have done business with, all recently enough to comment on. My current Spencer experience is on page 1 of this thread. It's a fail. It's a really bad one too, as that quick experience ensures it still isn't worth my trouble to do business with Spencer and the artists he represents, the same as it's been for (roughly fifteen years). I keep giving him chances, which he fails, and I again walk away. I don't need to know the secrets of his business, his personal life, his "other" job, to "get" why this is, the why is right there on his public-facing site. A fail at professionalism.

Not sure what professionalism is? There are endless definitions out there mostly saying the same thing, this is as good as any other imo.

Again, seriously, is anybody that going to agree with Chris that inventory control in an inventory intense business isn't of primary importance?

Maybe I have it all wrong.

[comix4fun]

Just now, rrichards said:

Listening to to commentary from members it seems that there are a number of issues with Spencer's site which I have also experienced first hand . I have heard that he is a great, honest, guy and I'm sure he is but the truth is that his site IS a mess with broken links ,many pages with out images and a huge number of pages that are not available. This is not a "extraordinarily professional" approach and the attitude that is projected  that he is very busy and that his time is so much more important than yours is not helping.

Having said that ,you can get some really great buys of comtemporary artwork if you want to put up with all of this .

My suggestion: Catch him at a convention when he usually comes with his available stock ,

I was referring to Spencer, personally, as extraordinarily professional. His site needs a ton of work, for sure. I don't think anyone would deny that. 

I know you know this because you've mentioned how great the buys are from him, but it bears repeating for others who may be getting their apples mixed with their oranges when it comes to dealers, reps, and who owns the art, etc. 

Personally, I don't let a site with bad links, or needing an update, conflate with Spencer personally being unprofessional. A lot of those folks place the same demands on Spencer and the 40,000 pages he has in inventory with reps who have 400 or 4,000 pages in inventory...or even worse, with dealers who have a few thousand pages in inventory but have margins of 50% to 500% on each and every page they list allowing more disposable income to keep things more neat and tidy. Neither the smaller scale rep nor the dealer with his personally owned inventory are real analogs to Spencer. From a lot of the conversations over the years it seems a lot of folks don't know the difference between a rep and a dealer or realize the grand scale of Spencer's inventory being more than several other reps entire inventories combined. That leads to expectations that aren't well informed or fair. 

There are a lot of people who have dealt with him over the last 30 years plus, and he's obtained a lot of grails for a lot of people in the process, I've never heard a tale of dishonesty or greed or self-interest as we've heard with so many others so I, personally, tolerate the low tech nature of the site, practice a little patience (since I remember well the days of the getting the CBG, buying artwork blind, and waiting weeks for the check to clear and the art to arrive), and enjoy not paying a massive premium for artwork in exchange for a shiny site. I am more thrilled to deal with a rep that I can trust, without question, than simply having a site that gives me a more instant feeling of gratification. 

[comix4fun]

Just now, vodou said:

You're a Friend of Mike too. It's difficult for you (and similar Friends of respective and various dealers, as I call them) to criticize either Mike or Spencer and easy for you to dismiss their inadequacies. That's called bias, it's intellectually dishonest. The question is one of professionalism in isolation, not "who", and it should be applied evenly to "whomever"...to be intellectually honest, to be logical. So yes, I think such categorization by me of you is good and useful here, to identify your inherent logical weakness. Judge Mike or Spencer the same way you would any other customer service interaction you would have, big business or small, and then you can be back in the intellectually honest category

Unless you are putting it out there that I am dishonest, and willing to stand behind that based on (???), then I'm telling you (on my word) that I consider professionalism to be the most important aspect of any business, even at the cost of profit, even at the cost of going out of business for lack of profit. Do it right, or don't do it at all, that's my motto and it's always 100% scalable (meaning, no whining becuase it's like um hard.)

I run my business professionally and if I couldn't I wouldn't. That I continue to run it, says it all. That's the standard I judge others by. Many in the comic art space, but not all, fail.

Felix Lu does not fail.

Mitch Itkowitz does not fail.

Albert Moy does not fail.

Anthony Snyder does not fail.

Those are the folks I can observe from my keyboard, interact with in person at shows, by e-mail and phone, and have done business with, all recently enough to comment on. My current Spencer experience is on page 1 of this thread. It's a fail. It's a really bad one too, as that quick experience ensures it still isn't worth my trouble to do business with Spencer and the artists he represents, the same as it's been for (roughly fifteen years). I keep giving him chances, which he fails, and I again walk away. I don't need to know the secrets of his business, his personal life, his "other" job, to "get" why this is, the why is right there on his public-facing site. A fail at professionalism.

Not sure what professionalism is? There are endless definitions out there mostly saying the same thing, this is as good as any other imo.

Again, seriously, is anybody that going to agree with Chris that inventory control in an inventory intense business isn't of primary importance?

Maybe I have it all wrong.

 

Glad you've got me all figured out. The same slapdash, whitewash, "see 1% and think it's 100%" analysis is really a poor excuse for really getting to know someone. 

You're making declarations when you should be asking questions. That's not unique to you, for sure, but it doesn't make your all-seeing-eye any more accurate. 

Perhaps ask yourself a question like "If I've had only one dealing with a rep, and the rep has been in business for 30+ years, does it make one bit of sense to judge him solely on that one dealing? Or am I just looking for an easy pigeonhole to confirm my omniscience?"

Easier to call OTHER PEOPLE intellectually dishonest I guess though, right? Not like you're making wholesale judgments about people, their motivations, their worth, based on scant or nonexistent personal experiences and little actual knowledge....that's SUPER intellectually honest BTW.

And getting defensive when someone takes the time to ask you a question instead of instantly labeling you is something else I might work on. 

You named 4 rock solid dealers and reps. Here's a little bit of info that you might have left out of your exhaustive comparative analysis: Add up everything in Felix's, Mitch's, Albert's and Anthony's repped inventories...multiply it by 2...it's still not half of Spencer's inventory. 

Try to not turn this post into something it's not, again. 

[Pete Marino]

32 minutes ago, rrichards said:

Listening to to commentary from members it seems that there are a number of issues with Spencer's site which I have also experienced first hand . I have heard that he is a great, honest, guy and I'm sure he is but the truth is that his site IS a mess with broken links ,many pages with out images and a huge number of pages that are not available. This is not a "extraordinarily professional" approach and the attitude that is projected  that he is very busy and that his time is so much more important than yours is not helping.

Having said that ,you can get some really great buys of comtemporary artwork if you want to put up with all of this .

My suggestion: Catch him at a convention when he usually comes with his available stock ,

I think this is a great summary of how I feel about spencer.  If he's had what I wanted, he's never been anything but professional.  Great packaging, never said he has something then "whoops".  my personal fustration is spending hours sifting through the site (because you need to find your own images to a lot of stuff) to find out it's all gone.

When I've bought from him online and the stuff is there, he's great, buying at NYCC is great.  Dealing with his site, it's a nightmare and a time sink.  I think it's perfectly valid to state this to anyone who may want to buy something in this sale, don't expect quick responses, and don't expect a lot of it to be there before the sale, much less after you wait in line to see if it's been purchased by a previous email to him.

[Brian Peck]

2 hours ago, comix4fun said:

Given that this was an announcement on behalf of a site and representation, and not a thread started to wail and moan (which have their place to be sure).....

Perhaps complaints about the website mechanics, website inventory, ancient axes being ground down to the nub (complete with anecdotal hearsay pulled from all relevant context), and all the general piling on should be refrained from given that we're speaking of inconveniences and inaccuracies in inventory maintenance (within a thread posted at the request of the site/business owner) and not malfeasance, dishonesty or other poor behavior of a more nefarious or intentional kind. 

While this thread may indeed belong in the dealer/marketplace section, I don't believe that discharges our responsibility towards the propriety of our commentary given the setting and the nature of the original post. 

Simply, maybe everyone shouldn't be threadcrapping on a website's announcement (that already takes note of inventory issues and other potential problems with the site) as it is counter to how this forum is organized. There are times and places for complaints. 

Side Analysis: There are a whole mess of 1st world problems being laid bare here. 

This is a thread announcing a big sale which yes should be in Marketplace. I posted something similar about someone else's art for sale in here and I scolded for it. Spencer's sales always seem to post here without any issues. Double standards?

As to the complaints about the site. The thread is on a sale and people are pointing out how bad the site is because of the poor way the customer is treated. Broken links, or no links and art which many have bought year's before is still up on the site. We might be just collectors of comic art but are time is valuable and why waste it on a site which doesn't treat the customer properly with a site that can be properly navigated.