Near SEVEN figure mtg art sales 0

[PhilipB2k17]

35 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Well, all I'm going to say to that is it turns out I know who bought the time walk piece for a mil.    From the impression I have from dealing with him some, he's good for it.   And he doesn't give a shiznit about frazetta either.   Actually he's more likely to have interest in "fine art" over frazetta and the like.

Yeah. Yeah. “Receipts.”

[BCarter27]

35 minutes ago, Bronty said:

And he doesn't give a shiznit about frazetta either.

Which is odd to me in some ways... MTG doesn't exist without D&D which doesn't exist without the sword and sorcery explosion of the Frazetta era, etc. But I'm not saying he has to justify his MTG purchases by going out and buying a Frazetta painting!

[Bronty]

35 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Yeah. Yeah. “Receipts.”

You're fully trolling at this point.    You expecting bank statements?  

[Bronty]

37 minutes ago, BCarter27 said:

Which is odd to me in some ways... MTG doesn't exist without D&D which doesn't exist without the sword and sorcery explosion of the Frazetta era, etc. But I'm not saying he has to justify his MTG purchases by going out and buying a Frazetta painting!

True, but a 'sword and sorcery' explosion doesn't happen without LOTR.    LOTR and the hobbit are the biggest moments in the evolution of 'fantasy' IMO.   

This whole subculture is built from Tolkien at the end of the day.   

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Bronty

[vodou]

3 hours ago, BCarter27 said:

I'm the guy that said I'd take the Action Comics 1 color mockup over a copy of the actual book. So you'll get no argument about OA over the published counterpart from me. Nor about there needing to be a value difference between the two.

But whoa nellie... what a value difference!

There's no peer justification propping these prices up. It's all just made up numbers. That's the problem with private sales. We've seen it happen on these boards over and over when someone loses money sending a piece to auction after buying it at an inflated price privately.

Other than homerun balls, maybe another comparable would be Star Wars figure backing card production materials. But those prices aren't near these levels.

As a still maturing subset of the MTG/CCG hobby (which I think is nearing maturation), the art aspect by definition will be volatile. It has to be. The pool of players is much, much smaller (the demand) and the supply is rather concentrated. That's a recipe for power moves on the buy side (things offered for sale by naive old hands) and the sell side (it's 1/1 and it's mine, pay up or seeya). I liken this aspect and the resulting volatility to how Chuck R scored the Church Collection and then distributed it. Eventually stability settled in there, it will here too. That takes time, adoption by profile collectors, and then the herd will come along (eventually). Check out eBay, even the off-brand originals sell for hundreds and thousands of dollars, based primarily on utility of the card in gameplay. I can't call this an art market, but it's definitely a market.

[vodou]

54 minutes ago, Bronty said:

True, but a 'sword and sorcery' explosion doesn't happen without LOTR.    LOTR and the hobbit are the biggest moments in the evolution of 'fantasy' IMO.   

This whole subculture is built from Tolkien at the end of the day.   

 

Mmmm...I dunno. REH was bigger than Tolkien back in the day (1930s, all were beneath high literary notice at the time, understand) and Tarzan (ERB overall actually) and the REH resurgence in the late sixties through the early eighties preceded the Tolkien (and Shannara et al coattails ride, etc) resurgence. I'm no expert but I think an argument could be made that ERB/REH resurgence woke up Tolkien as "good" properties were being sought and reprinted (rights likely cheap) to ride the wave. The role Arkham House had in endlessly promoting and keeping Lovecraft and Friends in print and pastiched to death shouldn't be ignored either, as that kept the pulps overall 'in the public eye' pretty much without gap.

Coincidentally, here a fresh article on Tolkien and original art!

[Bronty]

38 minutes ago, vodou said:

As a still maturing subset of the MTG/CCG hobby (which I think is nearing maturation), the art aspect by definition will be volatile. It has to be. The pool of players is much, much smaller (the demand) and the supply is rather concentrated. That's a recipe for power moves on the buy side (things offered for sale by naive old hands) and the sell side (it's 1/1 and it's mine, pay up or seeya). I liken this aspect and the resulting volatility to how Chuck R scored the Church Collection and then distributed it. Eventually stability settled in there, it will here too. That takes time, adoption by profile collectors, and then the herd will come along (eventually). Check out eBay, even the off-brand originals sell for hundreds and thousands of dollars, based primarily on utility of the card in gameplay. I can't call this an art market, but it's definitely a market.

That's very well stated.    I also think its difficult for comic art collectors to wrap their heads around the supply differences.   There's an inexhaustible ocean of comic art.   Not so elsewhere. 

Sure, these prices are cuckoo, but if no spiderman interiors existed and all that existed were say 10 covers, no interiors, what would those 10 covers go for?  It would get pretty stupid pretty quick.    The fact that dumb stuff like a Spiderman Annual 7 (or whatever it is in the current auction) cover can be six figures is effing mind boggling too considering the bajillions of pages (and covers for that matter) out there.    For spiderman, and for every other marvel character.   And for every other publisher!

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Bronty

[buyatari]

4 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Yeah. Yeah. “Receipts.”

You won't ever get that. If you don't want to believe it that is fine. You aren't a buyer or seller of this material anyway.

That being said all I can tell you is to wait.

Most transactions in this market at these levels are private and will continue to be that way. Still one day an item from this field is bound to have a public sale and that public sale will raise eyebrows with everyone outside looking in. When it does just know that it didn't come from nowhere. The MTG art market has been moving along quickly behind the scenes without the high profile public sales that you are looking for.

 

[mister_not_so_nice]

So, here are a couple of crummy photos of some OA I picked up a bit ago.  They have the card name and artist on the back of each, but I have to locate them for that info 

Pretty sure these are for a card game (not Magic), but I've never played, so not sure. Just happened to be right place, right time when they were available. 

Any value? Or should I continue using them to prop the windows open? 

[Pete Marino]

1 hour ago, mister_not_so_nice said:

So, here are a couple of crummy photos of some OA I picked up a bit ago.  They have the card name and artist on the back of each, but I have to locate them for that info 

Pretty sure these are for a card game (not Magic), but I've never played, so not sure. Just happened to be right place, right time when they were available. 

Any value? Or should I continue using them to prop the windows open? 

I'd ask around in the group below if you're on FB.

Not sure what they're from, but the bottom one is kind of cool

https://www.facebook.com/groups/734128283330197/

[ExNihilo]

I'll start by saying I don't know squat about OA.  I own some sketches and that's it.  I wish I had the money for exteriors/interiors, but unfortunately, I don't.  In other words, I'm extremely green about the various OA markets and how things impact them.

I started playing Magic back in '94 (Revised) and stopped in '97 (Tempest).  Considering the game has been around for 25+ years, those 4 years I played are just a blip on the MtG timeline.  Despite that, I have always had a place in my heart for the game because I spent a lot of hours at the game shop and playing with friends.  I've occasionally wanted to jump back in for nostalgia's sake.  But now we've got the release of Magic the Gathering: Arena, a F2P online version of the game (which of course has in game purchases if you wish to advance more quickly).  What I've seen has been a lot of old returning players much like myself.  I've also heard of people who have enjoyed the online version enough to buy "paper" (the term for the physical cards) for the first time.  This leads me to believe that the market and interest in MtG is only going to increase in the coming years.  And with that, might be a slight uptick in individuals looking for OA.  I say this, because I came to the OA forum specifically to inquire about Magic OA and stumbled upon this thread (how fortuitous).  And I have to believe that i'm not the only one that might suddenly be interested.

That all being said, the buyer pool doesn't strike me as being full of people falling over themselves for art.  None of my friends play (we all stopped 20 years ago).  None of my co-workers play.  I stopped by my game shop to see Friday Night Magic and it was all middle school kids, maybe some high schoolers, and some older adults that (as you would expect) remind you of Comic Book Guy ("worst.  reference.  ever.").  Now, unless Comic Book Guy there is rolling around in tech money, i'm not sure what the buyer pool for OA looks like.  $6.5M though sounds outrageous for Black Lotus, especially considering it's twice the value of the highest comic book ever sold.  But let's put it into perspective.  $3.2M was the sales price for Action Comics #1...of which there must be at least a thousand copies in existence (in varying grades).   By comparison, a NM- copy of an Alpha Black Lotus sold for $57k on eBay.  But this is OA...what price would you put on the original exterior art of Action Comics #1?  I still think $6.5 is asking too much and I do think that I'd be happy to get $2.5M for it.  But I also think there will be growth in the player base moving forward which could potentially drive up the price of existing iconic cards as well as their art.

Which brings me back to the original reason why I'm here...where do you find original MtG art for sale?  I'm not looking for the old school stuff because it's apparent that those cards are well outside my range.  But even the OA for contemporary cards from new expansions.  Where can I find these and how much do they go for?

[Bronty]

eBay and FB.   There’s a couple different FB mtg art groups (mtg art exchange and mtg art market IiRC).   Lots of newer pieces under a grand or two 

[Bronty]

As for copies in existence most people I’ve seen put action 1 at 200-400 copies.      Probably on the lower end is my guess.   

And lotuses have gone for 100k or so IIRC.   And there are 20,000 of those around (although only 1100 alphas). 

[PhilipB2k17]

4 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

I'll start by saying I don't know squat about OA.  I own some sketches and that's it.  I wish I had the money for exteriors/interiors, but unfortunately, I don't.  In other words, I'm extremely green about the various OA markets and how things impact them.

I started playing Magic back in '94 (Revised) and stopped in '97 (Tempest).  Considering the game has been around for 25+ years, those 4 years I played are just a blip on the MtG timeline.  Despite that, I have always had a place in my heart for the game because I spent a lot of hours at the game shop and playing with friends.  I've occasionally wanted to jump back in for nostalgia's sake.  But now we've got the release of Magic the Gathering: Arena, a F2P online version of the game (which of course has in game purchases if you wish to advance more quickly).  What I've seen has been a lot of old returning players much like myself.  I've also heard of people who have enjoyed the online version enough to buy "paper" (the term for the physical cards) for the first time.  This leads me to believe that the market and interest in MtG is only going to increase in the coming years.  And with that, might be a slight uptick in individuals looking for OA.  I say this, because I came to the OA forum specifically to inquire about Magic OA and stumbled upon this thread (how fortuitous).  And I have to believe that i'm not the only one that might suddenly be interested.

That all being said, the buyer pool doesn't strike me as being full of people falling over themselves for art.  None of my friends play (we all stopped 20 years ago).  None of my co-workers play.  I stopped by my game shop to see Friday Night Magic and it was all middle school kids, maybe some high schoolers, and some older adults that (as you would expect) remind you of Comic Book Guy ("worst.  reference.  ever.").  Now, unless Comic Book Guy there is rolling around in tech money, i'm not sure what the buyer pool for OA looks like.  $6.5M though sounds outrageous for Black Lotus, especially considering it's twice the value of the highest comic book ever sold.  But let's put it into perspective.  $3.2M was the sales price for Action Comics #1...of which there must be at least a thousand copies in existence (in varying grades).   By comparison, a NM- copy of an Alpha Black Lotus sold for $57k on eBay.  But this is OA...what price would you put on the original exterior art of Action Comics #1?  I still think $6.5 is asking too much and I do think that I'd be happy to get $2.5M for it.  But I also think there will be growth in the player base moving forward which could potentially drive up the price of existing iconic cards as well as their art.

Which brings me back to the original reason why I'm here...where do you find original MtG art for sale?  I'm not looking for the old school stuff because it's apparent that those cards are well outside my range.  But even the OA for contemporary cards from new expansions.  Where can I find these and how much do they go for?

There are estimated to be about 100-150 copies of Action #1 left in existence in all condition grades. And the one that sold for $3.2 million was the highest graded copy known. There’s one other that is graded the same, but that copy isn’t as nice per most who’ve seen both. 

So it’s a unique item. Just like the Lotus painting. 

You’re right that any Original Art from Action #1, featuring Superman, would be extremely valuable. But it’s hard to say whether it would be worth more than that action #1.  Interior art, maybe not. The Cover, almost certainly yes. But the art from that book probably no longer exists. 

The most valuable known comic art in existence is probably some of the interior pages to Amazing Fantasy 15 featuring key moments, or the cover to Hulk 181 (perhaps). Others can probably suggest additional candidates, based on their better knowledge of what’s out there. 

But all it takes is one person being willing to pay the price asked for something. I highly doubt tat the owner of the Black Lotus painting would turn down $2.5 million for it, if it was a serious offer.

Edited January 31, 2019 by PhilipB2k17

[Bronty]

12 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

 

So it’s a unique item. Just like the Lotus painting. 

 

You mean except for the other 200 copies at least one of which is in better condition .     Second highest grade action 1 is nothing to sneeze at, in fact its a marvelous artifact, but there's nothing "unique" about it.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Bronty

[vodou]

The ask on Lotus is $6. The offer was 1/3rd that. Who ever in the history of the world, that doesn't need to money for dire circumstances, ever leapt at 1/3rd ask? Seriously. Show me that guy, and receipts too please That's the proposition being tossed around, that just 1/3rd ask would be taking advantage of the dummy offering it. Based on...? Nothing. Of course.

[Pete Marino]

25 minutes ago, vodou said:

The ask on Lotus is $6. The offer was 1/3rd that. Who ever in the history of the world, that doesn't need to money for dire circumstances, ever leapt at 1/3rd ask? Seriously. Show me that guy, and receipts too please That's the proposition being tossed around, that just 1/3rd ask would be taking advantage of the dummy offering it. Based on...? Nothing. Of course.

Not to mention holding on to Lotus, keeping the ask at 6.5, inflates the prices of all his other holdings.

Keep the best with a crazy high price, step down the ladder to other cards keep their inflated prices and they will now seem "cheap" compared to lotus.

This isn't someone who's holding 1 piece of art, and has any need of money at the moment.

[Bronty]

Good observations and I agree.    Also, what I'm hearing is that he raised his prices actually based on not enough resistance to previous prices.    

Edited January 31, 2019 by Bronty

[vodou]

50 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

Not to mention holding on to Lotus, keeping the ask at 6.5, inflates the prices of all his other holdings.

Keep the best with a crazy high price, step down the ladder to other cards keep their inflated prices and they will now seem "cheap" compared to lotus.

This isn't someone who's holding 1 piece of art, and has any need of money at the moment.

 

8 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Good observations and I agree.    Also, what I'm hearing is that he raised his prices actually based on not enough resistance to previous prices.    

Best of the Best for unreal money (to nearly everyone, Lotus $6.5m) is the kind of advertising you just can't buy. People go to MOMA NYC just to see Van Gogh's Starry Night...get it?

[buyatari]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

The ask on Lotus is $6. The offer was 1/3rd that. Who ever in the history of the world, that doesn't need to money for dire circumstances, ever leapt at 1/3rd ask? Seriously. Show me that guy, and receipts too please That's the proposition being tossed around, that just 1/3rd ask would be taking advantage of the dummy offering it. Based on...? Nothing. Of course.

To be fair I’m quite certain that the offer of 2.5M came before the ask of 6.5M. The ask is in part based on not only other sales but the ever increasing private offers on the Lotus.