Reasons for DC layoffs 2 2

[PopKulture]

5 hours ago, RCheli said:

I love how we're comparing the best artists of the Gold/Silver/Bronze ages against some penciller who drew a crappy page in Batgirl. "Why can't today's artist draw like Steranko or Smith?" I don't see anyone running bad/mediocre artists of those eras out there to go against this guy. I mean, I have read a ton of comics from Marvel/DC from the 50s-80s with awful art. Let's pull out pages of crummy Werner Roth art or Larry Leiber.

That is a fair point, as Kav conceded, and the Johnny Hazard strip was visually appealing (not sure he quite put Caniff to shame though), but I think Robbins became a low-water mark when he took on The Invaders. I've tried and I've tried to make excuses why I could actually, somehow, possibly-if-I-tried-really-hard like it; I just can't.  

p.s. Roth and Leiber - ouch. Did you really have to go there??  

[PopKulture]

5 hours ago, kav said:

I'm convinced some writers get hired to check off diversity check boxes.  

I am likewise convinced. Sadly, I am similarly convinced most of them hold a lofty opinion of themselves as virtuous iconoclasts in the service of some higher calling. I wish they were as successful at crafting their own legacies instead of tweaking or obliterating someone else's. 

To think a female Thor, a Korean Hulk, a biracial Spiderman, a young black female Iron-Man (and whatever else I've missed lately) happened organically is delusional. It's lazy - and forced - and comes with enough self-congratulatory smugness to choke on.

Yes, I know...  (above) =  

[kav]

2 minutes ago, PopKulture said:

I am likewise convinced. Sadly, I am similarly convinced most of them hold a lofty opinion of themselves as virtuous iconoclasts in the service of some higher calling. I wish they were as successful at crafting their own legacies instead of tweaking or obliterating someone else's. 

To think a female Thor, a Korean Hulk, a biracial Spiderman, a young black female Iron-Man (and whatever else I've missed lately) happened organically is delusional. It's lazy - and forced - and comes with enough self-congratulatory smugness to choke on.

Yes, I know...  (above) =  

Any one of those could work, if they were well written..  They never are.  It's just well here's a Korean Thor isn't that awesome and fair and stuff?

[Artboy99]

A long time ago when I was a much more poor individual I lived in an apartment that had an old door like this in one of my walls. It was locked and couldn't be opened. It had no door handles, and had a deadbolt and it also had nails strategically placed to secure the door in place. Maybe they are just showing that Batgirl is of meager means and can't afford a nicer place.

[kav]

Just now, Artboy99 said:

A long time ago when I was a much more poor individual I lived in an apartment that had an old door like this in one of my walls. It was locked and couldn't be opened. It had no door handles, and had a deadbolt and it also had nails strategically placed to secure the door in place. Maybe they are just showing that Batgirl is of meager means and can't afford a nicer place.

If this is true the -script needs to explicate this.  As I've said, if you have to think up ways why the weird drawing makes sense, the artist has failed.  I got a no prize for spotting a six fingered spider man in a BA comic-I didn't say 'well maybe Thanos shot him with a finger ray-' no I just mailed my letter to Marvel.

[kav]

Ps meager means would not include a huge bathroom.  My god her bedroom must be enormous.

Also nothing can explain the shower curtain rod.  Thats 100% bad drawing.

Edited February 1, 2019 by kav

[Tony D]

Haven't you ever seen Rene Magritte paintings?

[Lazyboy]

51 minutes ago, PopKulture said:

6 hours ago, kav said:

I'm convinced some writers get hired to check off diversity check boxes.  

I am likewise convinced. Sadly, I am similarly convinced most of them hold a lofty opinion of themselves as virtuous iconoclasts in the service of some higher calling. I wish they were as successful at crafting their own legacies instead of tweaking or obliterating someone else's. 

To think a female Thor, a Korean Hulk, a biracial Spiderman, a young black female Iron-Man (and whatever else I've missed lately) happened organically is delusional. It's lazy - and forced - and comes with enough self-congratulatory smugness to choke on.

Yes, I know...  (above) =  

You guys think those ideas  each came from the individual writers?

[Lazyboy]

36 minutes ago, kav said:

If this is true the --script needs to explicate this.

As if you've read more than that single page of Batgirl in the last few years.

[PopKulture]

3 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

You guys think those ideas  each came from the individual writers?

Nope. They get bounced back and forth at editorial meetings where they all pat themselves on the back.  

Edited February 1, 2019 by PopKulture

[kav]

2 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

As if you've read more than that single page of Batgirl in the last few years.

Irrelevant to the point being made.

Hey what about this though?  

[Lazyboy]

Just now, PopKulture said:

Nope. They get bounced back and forth at editorial meetings where they all pat themselves on the back.  

So why are you blaming the writers and claiming they get hired based on what boxes they can check off?

[Lazyboy]

49 minutes ago, kav said:

Irrelevant to the point being made.

Even you can't be that clueless.

If it has been previously established, it is very relevant.

Or it could really just be bad art.

Quote

Hey what about this though?  

What about it? Stan was not an established writer and had no special perspective on any character.

Nice job with that last sentence, though. I obviously thought Stan was brought in as the top writer, and editor, too!

Edited February 1, 2019 by Lazyboy
typo

[kav]

16 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Even you can be that clueless.

If it has been previously established, it is very relevant.

Or it could really just be bad art.

What about it? Stan was not an established writer and had no special perspective on any character.

Nice job with that last sentence, though. I obviously thought Stan was brought in as the top writer, and editor, too!

It is irrelevant how many books I have read to notice a panel has a shower curtain rod hanging in mid air and a bathtub in front of a door.  I mentioned Gabby Rivera was no Mark Twain or Stan Lee.  In your mind Stan Lee had been hired to write comics with absolutely no history of writing, which as I pointed out is ludicrous.  You said and I quote "Stan Lee was hired into the comics industry because he was a great, proven writer? Well, that's an interesting spin on history."   I can't believe I have to actually explain this.

Edited February 1, 2019 by kav

[Logan510]

27 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

As if you've read more than that single page of Batgirl in the last few years.

What does that have to do with poor storytelling?

[kav]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

What does that have to do with poor storytelling?

Or art?  

[Logan510]

1 minute ago, kav said:

Or art?  

And he called you clueless...

[Lazyboy]

20 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

What does that have to do with poor storytelling?

"Why are there a giant penny and computers in that cave? That doesn't make any sense! What a terrible artist."

Continuity and context never matter, obviously.

Again, I'm not reading this junk and I'm not a fan of the art, but I'm not the one going nuts based on a single page.

[RCheli]

1 hour ago, PopKulture said:

I am likewise convinced. Sadly, I am similarly convinced most of them hold a lofty opinion of themselves as virtuous iconoclasts in the service of some higher calling. I wish they were as successful at crafting their own legacies instead of tweaking or obliterating someone else's. 

To think a female Thor, a Korean Hulk, a biracial Spiderman, a young black female Iron-Man (and whatever else I've missed lately) happened organically is delusional. It's lazy - and forced - and comes with enough self-congratulatory smugness to choke on.

Yes, I know...  (above) =  

This is nothing new. Black Panther was created specially to be a, get this, black hero. Same with countless other minority characters which were created to help readers find someone just like them in the comics. So if that means a Muslim girl, so be it. Or a Hispanic or LGBTQ or whatever. 

[Lazyboy]

1 minute ago, RCheli said:

Black Panther was created specially to be a, get this, black hero.

Yeah, but he was the Black Panther, not Black Daredevil.