[FEB 12 UPDATE] !RETURNED! - Dell’Otto
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211 posts in this topic

70 posts
1 hour ago, stinkininkin said:

Forgive my ignorance, but if payment is sent via paypal personal (friends and family, no paypal fees), then the buyer doesn't have paypal's backing if they seek a refund?

Sorry you got scammed RS88!

Thanks Scott!

Yah, I definitely take ownership in being naïve and ignoring the red flags.  This situation may not turn out well for me - but I just want everyone to watch out and be careful.  If anything my story is meant to protect you awesome people in the future.

If my payment was personal, turd-burgler wouldn't have been able to dispute it. 

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22 minutes ago, Blastaar said:

My guess is the guy could care less about the artist. He found a mark and went for it. The art will resurface shortly somewhere for sale. 

Yup, he did (Just a dumb trusting Canadian....).  I feel that there's not alot of room for him to go anywhere from here, and I'm sure this tight-knit community will eviscerate him he ever pops up.

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51 minutes ago, Ironmandrd said:

Crazy story.  Just horrible.  

I find it hard to believe that Paypal is a closed part of this and cannpt do anything because of a technicality.  From OP's perspective there was no valid return--so if it's not under the original dispute, why can't OP open up another dispute?  And absolutely, calling Paypal and getting past the first Rep would be essential.

Yes, Paypal was enormously unhelpful.  I did expect this to happen, so I phoned them ahead of time to let them know what I was predicting.  The ASSURED me that they would support my claim and my funds would remain intact. 

I had asked if there are any other steps to ensure that this would be air-tight, or anything else I could do - they said that they had made notes and just to phone back when the parcel was received and if there was any problems.

I phoned back, and they were 1. Rude 2. Skeptical of my claim and said I had no recourse.  I elevated it to a supervisor who did nothing.

Apparently there is an appeal process that I will fight tooth-and-nail (I'm sure that if I file the requisite documents PayPal can make an insurance claim) but in the interim TB (Turd-buglar) Fraudster received a full refund and also has the original piece.

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28 minutes ago, Blastaar said:

The art will resurface shortly somewhere for sale.

If so, all the more reason to file a police report.

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14 minutes ago, RS88 said:

Yup, he did (Just a dumb trusting Canadian....).  I feel that there's not alot of room for him to go anywhere from here, and I'm sure this tight-knit community will eviscerate him he ever pops up.

Ha, wasn't eluding to that. Many of us have probably let "trust" fog our judgment. I got taken for a ride on a commission I paid upfront for (me being dumb) last year.

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Just now, Blastaar said:

Ha, wasn't eluding to that. Many of us have probably let "trust" fog our judgment. I got taken for a ride on a commission I paid upfront for (me being dumb) last year.

Lol I know - I didn't take it personally ;).  My other big issue was as soon as I flagged it and knew what was going to happen I was given two completely different answers by the service that was supposed to protect me, and that also charged me a hefty fee for this service.

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18 minutes ago, RS88 said:

Yes, Paypal was enormously unhelpful.  I did expect this to happen, so I phoned them ahead of time to let them know what I was predicting.  The ASSURED me that they would support my claim and my funds would remain intact. 

I had asked if there are any other steps to ensure that this would be air-tight, or anything else I could do - they said that they had made notes and just to phone back when the parcel was received and if there was any problems.

I phoned back, and they were 1. Rude 2. Skeptical of my claim and said I had no recourse.  I elevated it to a supervisor who did nothing.

Apparently there is an appeal process that I will fight tooth-and-nail (I'm sure that if I file the requisite documents PayPal can make an insurance claim) but in the interim TB (Turd-buglar) Fraudster received a full refund and also has the original piece.

I'm sorry all this happened.  While I believe you're 100% honest from paypal's point of view there's no way to know who's telling the truth here.  You shipped what you claim is a original piece of art, the buyer claimed it was a print and returned it, you received a print as a return.  There's no way to prove who's lying to paypal's satisfaction and as usual, they sided with the buyer. 

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12 hours ago, Bill C said:

lesson: paypal personal

How would this have helped? Is there a difference in the way PayPal would have handled it if it were to have been PayPal personal? I usually use service/goods so just wondering. 

Edited by rogue14
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11 minutes ago, rogue14 said:

How would this have helped? Is there a difference in the way PayPal would have handled it if it were to have been PayPal personal? I usually use service/goods so just wondering. 

Paypal Personal implies that you know them as a friend or family member so there is no way for them to get a refund. It is essentially the same as check or MO or sending it via Western Union in that it puts all the power in the seller's hands so there is no way to dispute or get a refund. Many people in the hobby use it when they can to save on fees.

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8 minutes ago, Madman1138 said:

Paypal Personal implies that you know them as a friend or family member so there is no way for them to get a refund. It is essentially the same as check or MO or sending it via Western Union in that it puts all the power in the seller's hands so there is no way to dispute or get a refund. Many people in the hobby use it when they can to save on fees.

There may be some confusion out there on PayPal fees. The fee you are charged as a seller is not for your protection, it's for PayPal's. As the payment processor they are shifting their liability over to you. The irony is that you, the seller, are paying for the privilege. You have no protection. This all mostly works on faith that most people are honest. Amazingly, that actually works. Mostly.

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This is horrible.  I have noticed a trend on CAF of being contacted to sell and the buyer doesn't have 1 piece in their own CAF gallery. 

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23 minutes ago, MONSTER said:

This is horrible.  I have noticed a trend on CAF of being contacted to sell and the buyer doesn't have 1 piece in their own CAF gallery. 

Ive gotten silly high balls offers from people like that. I dont even respond with my usual "nope". It screams scam. They're out there as his post illustrates. Be careful people. 

Man I miss the good ol days of money orders and bidpay.com 

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54 minutes ago, Khazano said:

Ive gotten silly high balls offers from people like that. I dont even respond with my usual "nope". It screams scam. They're out there as his post illustrates. Be careful people. 

Man I miss the good ol days of money orders and bidpay.com 

There is one person who favorites stuff of mine but if I click their name and go to their gallery it doesn’t even exist. This has been going on for years. They actually do appear legit however as I recently saw them pop up in a Facebook group and they previously emailed me about pieces they have. Kind of a pet peeve of mine when you dont’t post ANY of your artwork. There are multiple people who do this in the little niche area I collect and then I get messages complaining nothing coming to market in a long time...it seems to me this tactic is helping suppress the market and not motivate people to let go of stuff they otherwise might because it’s just not going to be worth it.

I also had a few unsolicited offers from people regarding Star Wars pieces that were clearly marked NFS. People must have found them on google searches and messaged me. One guy said he went onto CAF and made an account so he could message me about the art and then carried on in a CAF message asking about it being for sale, the price, and stating it would be a rare opportunity to own such a piece...it WAS NOT for sale and he never made one damn offer to entice me. Those pieces have since been removed for the time being.

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1 hour ago, Khazano said:

Ive gotten silly high balls offers from people like that. I dont even respond with my usual "nope". It screams scam. They're out there as his post illustrates. Be careful people. 

Man I miss the good ol days of money orders and bidpay.com 

I have interacted many times with people who have no galleries. I have had some sales and have had no issues so far. (knocking on wood now)  Sorry to hear about your incident Ryan.

 

Malvin

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Man this sucks...totally drains your love for collecting when something like that happens.  I'm pretty sure that dirt bag knows a thing or two about Dell'Otto and it will probably resurface and I will be on the lookout.  You should also post something if you haven't already on those dedicated facebook pages for Dell'Otto, bulletproof etc etc.

Who knows..maybe one of Gabs reps take notice and will do something generous for you.  Just saying..hoping for the best.

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2 hours ago, Khazano said:

Ive gotten silly high balls offers from people like that. I dont even respond with my usual "nope". It screams scam. They're out there as his post illustrates. Be careful people. 

I have had a longstanding, informal personal policy of not interacting with sales inquiries from CAF accounts with no galleries.

This cements it.

I understand that some collectors like a low profile.  Too bad.  You dudes who are so insistent to be as off-the-grid as possible: no rep = no deals.

Edited by thethedew

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So there's really no way to sell art safely unless it's in person.  I never even thought of a scam like this.  Let us know how the paypal appeal goes. 

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48 minutes ago, Drunk Superman said:

So there's really no way to sell art safely unless it's in person.  I never even thought of a scam like this.  Let us know how the paypal appeal goes. 

If you can get a good escrow service or a dealer to act as the middle-man - I'm assuming it would be easier.

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That is one freakin' INSANE scam. What scum. 

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I think over the years I may have been contacted like 3 times through CAF by someone who had an account there but no art listed.

Never did any deals so nothing bad to report. One of the guys was a piece of garbage but we talked long enough for me to get a feel for his (lack of) character before going on any deals, so no blood no foul.

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