[FEB 12 UPDATE] !RETURNED! - Dell’Otto
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43 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Anyone want to bet he already sold it to someone else, and had to get it back from that other buyer first? 

And that guy shipped him back a print. 

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oh man, I can't wait to hear this. Fingers crossed this is going to end well and we can laugh and learn from Guizar-gate (yes? no?) for years to come.

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On 1/31/2019 at 6:27 PM, RS88 said:

The story of how it was “ found” is strange, and quite convoluted.  The details aren’t very important, but the result is.

 

 

Yes they are. You gotta tell us after taking us this far through your odyssey!  lol  Glad it's back. Figured he'd cave to the pressure. 

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On 1/31/2019 at 9:27 PM, RS88 said:

Hey everyone, 

I’ve gone back and forth a little bit trying to figure out if I should be angry, but I’ve settled on forgiveness.  

As a fellow collector and Dell'Otto collector - very happy that it worked out for you. 

I applaud you for your decision to drop the issue and forgive the "buyer", but I still think his information should be left out there to help others. Forgive - but don't forget. This was an adult involved within the industry, runs some sort of store, etc. Not a 15 year old who really likes comics and made a huge mistake. The scammer was likely going to try and unload it onto someone else and make out with nice sum of money free and clear, and the fact that he knew exactly how to exploit Paypal's system (which favors the buyer) shows me that this is likely not an isolated incident. He's ripped off others before and will do it again, just this time he got push back because it was something big enough to raise eyebrows and there was a community to support getting it back. It probably won't be art next time - he'll stick to things bought on eBay like a PS4 or maybe a computer. That person will have no recourse or a community to help them.

 

 

 

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ah.  I see.  the OP updated via the OP being updated.  Congrats pal, I'm glad it was returned safe and sound!

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32 minutes ago, Dokstarr said:

As a fellow collector and Dell'Otto collector - very happy that it worked out for you. 

I applaud you for your decision to drop the issue and forgive the "buyer", ...

Now that the art is safe, per my last comment, I'll add...I do not applaud. All Dokstarr's point in his post above are valid and the pivot here is: take the easy route and walk away a slightly less trusting man next time or do the entire world a favor and push this as far as you can legally and with PayPal (in the sense of making them fully aware of how they were "used" and -maybe- arguably party to a crime being committed. Their policies and general hands-off course of dealing with such things, instead of having a deeper investigative process, is what facilitated this being so easy for the other guy).

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@RS88 Like others, I would also like to know more details, even if convoluted, because this is a scam most of us have never heard of and we are all now pretty invested in this tale. How he came to admit he had it and his explanation is important to us to know. I hope you'll share the details as the community is entitled to know after their support and he certainly DOES NOT warrant the protection.

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6 minutes ago, Madman1138 said:

@RS88 Like others, I would also like to know more details, even if convoluted, because this is a scam most of us have never heard of and we are all now pretty invested in this tale. How he came to admit he had it and his explanation is important to us to know. I hope you'll share the details as the community is entitled to know after their support and he certainly DOES NOT warrant the protection.

Yeah. 

Seriously, it was nice for everyone to come to your defense (I shared the FB post on my feed) but it would also be nice for you to get us some closure! Not that we deserve to know, but it would be nice. The guy's name is out there already but the facts matter a lot.

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we want every last detail possible!  the internet loves a good scandal!

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27 minutes ago, RS88 said:

Hey guys,

Fair enough!  I cannot speak to the validity of his story of how he ‘found’ the art - personally I think we can all guess correctly what actually happened -  but it was dealt with privately outside law enforcement or any PayPal intervention. No ransom or anything nefarious - just a claim joined with a story that he now had the art and would like to send it back.  He reached out to me.

I can only guess as to if it was a) his story was true b) the pressure via social media inhibiting any chance to continue to be involved in the community, c) the understanding that the art would never ever be able to sold - or d) just a crisis of conscience

There was ultimately no admission of guilt, but just desire to move forward and try to undo what was done.

I will tell you that the entertainment value on the story was quite high, however.

I am pretty exhausted with the ordeal at this point - so I’m not sure where it will lead - but I do know it’s a great testimony that this community are junk-yard dogs when they are wronged!

Is that enough? Or is there more detail required?

Thanks again everyone.

While I can see how hearing about all the details is interesting, I also understand how sometimes you just want to close the chapter and one on.  People have been warned and should be more careful going forward, any point in dwelling on the past and stirring things up? (I can't believe I just said that, I am getting old, a few years ago I would be all over and dwelling on all the details!)

Malvin

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30 minutes ago, RS88 said:

Hey guys,

Fair enough!  I cannot speak to the validity of his story of how he ‘found’ the art - personally I think we can all guess correctly what actually happened -  but it was dealt with privately outside law enforcement or any PayPal intervention. No ransom or anything nefarious - just a claim joined with a story that he now had the art and would like to send it back.  He reached out to me.

I can only guess as to if it was a) his story was true b) the pressure via social media inhibiting any chance to continue to be involved in the community, c) the understanding that the art would never ever be able to sold - or d) just a crisis of conscience

There was ultimately no admission of guilt, but just desire to move forward and try to undo what was done.

I will tell you that the entertainment value on the story was quite high, however.

I am pretty exhausted with the ordeal at this point - so I’m not sure where it will lead - but I do know it’s a great testimony that this community are junk-yard dogs when they are wronged!

Is that enough? Or is there more detail required?

Thanks again everyone.

I get putting it all behind you and the exhaustion of a battle like this.

But I think removing his name and handles (from Instagram and eBay) are really giving him a free pass.

But in general, there's a lesson here that we really should vet the people we sell to, I know I've sent art all over the world to people I've never heard of (or heard from again).

 

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2 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

I get putting it all behind you and the exhaustion of a battle like this.

But I think removing his name and handles (from Instagram and eBay) are really giving him a free pass.

But in general, there's a lesson here that we really should vet the people we sell to, I know I've sent art all over the world to people I've never heard of (or heard from again).

 

I agree, I wouldn't want to do business with this individual anytime down the line when art is concerned. Heck, when anything is concerned to be honest. I don't have my pitchfork out or anything  and I wouldn't continue to go around blasting his name, but if he has the capacity for this kind of fraud, I'd like to be able to reference this incident if I were to forget who it was a few years later. There was a lot of pressure from the social community this time. What if he builds a little more credibility by starting to collect art and thinks, "hey, maybe it'll work this time"?

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6 minutes ago, T Shen said:

I agree, I wouldn't want to do business with this individual anytime down the line when art is concerned. Heck, when anything is concerned to be honest. I don't have my pitchfork out or anything  and I wouldn't continue to go around blasting his name, but if he has the capacity for this kind of fraud, I'd like to be able to reference this incident if I were to forget who it was a few years later. There was a lot of pressure from the social community this time. What if he builds a little more credibility by starting to collect art and thinks, "hey, maybe it'll work this time"?

Yup, you’re right!

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4 minutes ago, RS88 said:

You are correct, and as this appeared in a public forum and solved with this public forum - You all deserve to know and decide for yourselves.

@king_collectables is the company, Luis Guizar is the name.

Everyone has a right to decide for themselves on where the guilt lies and are free to contact him for his side of the story, and I’ll take any queries you have if you need more,

I do trust that the community will conduct themselves respectfully - I just really don’t want anyone bullied.

Awareness is the key concept for me, continued torture isn’t lol

At least now - hopefully if someone is dealing with this person they can google the name and decide if they want to move forward. I know sometimes when I deal with unknown people I google them trying to see if there had been problems. Same way I'm sure people here google commission experiences, dealer experiences, etc. Forgive, but don't forget. Hopefully someone else will see this now and avoid being scammed, since I'm sure he will continue to try and steal from others.

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Ryan, I’m happy that the art is back in your hands. I’m sure you’re well aware that you are one of the few lucky ones to have gotten your property back after fraud. 

That said, I guess what people want to know is how does one go from “this guy from Canada first tried to rope me with Friends & Family then he sent me a print” to “oh here it is all along, my bad?” Like how does one explain away a print that was never sent to him all along?

Perhaps I never made myself clear but I don’t blame you for not vetting the guy in the first place. This is a hobby in which if you’re not the first to pull the trigger the piece is long gone. Or if you hesitate too long with a buyer they may lose interest as the next shiny thing comes along and miss out on a sale. Then there are those who agree to buy then you never hear from again. There’s a sea of fickle buyers and sellers out there so when one is ready to hand over your asking price, then you jump on it. I get it. But yeah, our intuition should supercede our want to buy/sell. See: gut check.

This one goes against your want to put things behind you but... so are you keeping the Dell’Otto or you still selling it? There’s a grail to be had y’know!

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11 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Ryan, I’m happy that the art is back in your hands. I’m sure you’re well aware that you are one of the few lucky ones to have gotten your property back after fraud. 

That said, I guess what people want to know is how does one go from “this guy from Canada first tried to rope me with Friends & Family then he sent me a print” to “oh here it is all along, my bad?” Like how does one explain away a print that was never sent to him all along?

Perhaps I never made myself clear but I don’t blame you for not vetting the guy in the first place. This is a hobby in which if you’re not the first to pull the trigger the piece is long gone. Or if you hesitate too long with a buyer they may lose interest as the next shiny thing comes along and miss out on a sale. Then there are those who agree to buy then you never hear from again. There’s a sea of fickle buyers and sellers out there so when one is ready to hand over your asking price, then you jump on it. I get it. But yeah, our intuition should supercede our want to buy/sell. See: gut check.

This one goes against your want to put things behind you but... so are you keeping the Dell’Otto or you still selling it? There’s a grail to be had y’know!

Hey John! 

You’re very correct - the tether between those two points is quite thin.  He didn’t give much detail, other than the general theme that someone else close to him wronged him in this scenario - and I also didn’t ask for much detail.

Once I was informed that he was in possession of the art and wanted to send it back - that was just the focus for me.

I do want to give the benefit of the doubt, as I can never fully understand someone else’s situation - and I think that there is some immense sadness in his world.  While it doesn’t justify his actions, I feel like it can be offered my compassion.  

The whirlwind of buying and selling are tough waters - and you’re so right - when you’re dealing with emotional currency and lots of money - everything can change in a few hours!

As far as the grail...CAF should see an update soon and we can go back to the wonderful world of this wicked hobby!

 

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