F For Fake Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said: Ain't that the truth. Probably the best post in the whole thread. ADAMANTIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Logan510 said: Spider-Woman and She-Hulk were not done to further any social agenda, they were done to preserve copyright. The examples I used were from pre-1970 for Stan and early 70's for those other hippie writers. 3 hours ago, Logan510 said: Maybe if they were done in the information age it would've been portrayed that way For sure. 3 hours ago, Logan510 said: And everything basically comes down to money, but I appreciate you mansplaining it to me Sometimes in the middle of responses I metaphorically turn to the rest of the forum to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Logan510 said: If the EiC comes up with a concept and asks people working for him to flesh it out you can't create new characters? Editorial pretty much dictates things at Marvel these days. If there's a new character to be created, it's most likely originated through editorial - not sure how the writer and/or artist is... compensated or given any rights. What reasons do YOU think they don't create new characters for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, F For Fake said: Man, I looooooved "It's a Good Life if you Don't Weaken", but "Clyde Fans" was just a snooze for me. Maybe because it seemed like we got 20 pages every 2 years or so (I'm sure I'm exaggerating, but maybe not by much). I probably owe it a reread, so a new collection sounds about right. Will give it another shot soon. One of these days I need to give Seth a shot. Loved Joe Matt's work and am a big fan of a lot of what Chester did, but... just never was able to fully embrace the Seth work. What's the best place to start? F For Fake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan510 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: Editorial pretty much dictates things at Marvel these days. If there's a new character to be created, it's most likely originated through editorial - not sure how the writer and/or artist is... compensated or given any rights. What reasons do YOU think they don't create new characters for? Well, to be fair...lots of new characters have been created. How many of note though? I cannot answer that. I'm fairly certain the last new characters created that have turned into "franchise" players at Marvel were Punisher and Wolverine and they were not overnight sensations. I can answer why they create derivatives of existing characters...it's easier. You and I could probably come up with another version of Spider-Man or Wolverine over the course of a meal. It's lot harder when you're working with a blank canvas as opposed to a template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F For Fake Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: One of these days I need to give Seth a shot. Loved Joe Matt's work and am a big fan of a lot of what Chester did, but... just never was able to fully embrace the Seth work. What's the best place to start? Seth can be a little chillier than Matt and Chet Brown, as the nature of their work was very much autobio, while I think Seth's stuff is more narrative storytelling with a little autobio thrown in here and there. I'd recommend "It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken", which collects his most celebrated Palookaville storyline. It's probably the best example of his blending autobio and fiction. It has that melancholy that I tend to associate with the Drawn & Quarterly books of that era, but it's also a celebration of classic cartooning. If you like Joe Matt and Chester Brown, I think you might dig it! Prince Namor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Cool Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I basically refuse to buy new books (I did buy a couple Action 1000 variants but didn't even read them). The high price tag makes me think twice about grabbing a couple when I'm occasionally in a store and the art just seems too computer generated for my taste. I'm slowely working my way thru the Invincible series and although I really want to like it it's not striking a nerve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, 500Club said: No. It's been suggested that creators are loathe to create in a work-for-hire environment, and forego possible future riches. Aside from Mark Millar, I'm not seeing much evidence that creators are saving their best concepts for self publishing ventures, as tends to be the correlate of this argument. 3 Really when you look at who Image's line up of great creators are - it's almost ALL former Marvel creators who're now doing their best work. 1 hour ago, 500Club said: Also, there is new stuff being created. As examples, Grant Morrison created a bunch of new characters and concepts for his New X-Men run What superhero did he create other than Fantomex? Morrisson then went to DC and through a better shared ownership program, created an entire Universe of new characters.... 1 hour ago, 500Club said: , and Bendis is at present creating new concepts for DC. I think 'create something new' isn't so much a plea to actually create something new, but railing against the zillion derivative characters and concepts. Maybe Bendis also got himself a better deal. And talk about a creator of derivative tripe... Bendis is the home run hitter of it, co-creating the Marvel Ultimate Universe. A huge HIT I might add, leading to the idea Marvel might've gotten that readers WANT derivative concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidTheDavid Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I have maybe 5 titles that I collect and read. There's some excellent work being done in the world of comics, including at the two big publishers. I want to support those creators and my LCS. I spend way more on vintage stuff, but I like to keep some new stuff rolling through. I think there's a great deal of creative energy and high quality work in the field right now, despite all the doomsaying and naysaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, F For Fake said: Seth can be a little chillier than Matt and Chet Brown, as the nature of their work was very much autobio, while I think Seth's stuff is more narrative storytelling with a little autobio thrown in here and there. I'd recommend "It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken", which collects his most celebrated Palookaville storyline. It's probably the best example of his blending autobio and fiction. It has that melancholy that I tend to associate with the Drawn & Quarterly books of that era, but it's also a celebration of classic cartooning. If you like Joe Matt and Chester Brown, I think you might dig it! Cool, I'll check it out! F For Fake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, Logan510 said: Well, to be fair...lots of new characters have been created. How many of note though? I cannot answer that. I'm fairly certain the last new characters created that have turned into "franchise" players at Marvel were Punisher and Wolverine and they were not overnight sensations. Yeah, maybe Deadpool, Venom thrown in there. Not too many that have stuck though. 10 minutes ago, Logan510 said: I can answer why they create derivatives of existing characters...it's easier. You and I could probably come up with another version of Spider-Man or Wolverine over the course of a meal. It's lot harder when you're working with a blank canvas as opposed to a template. See... I don't think it's just a talent thing. I've read a lot of those creators who've left Marvel and went to Image... Kirkman, Brubaker/Phillips, Remender, BKV, etc.... and it's all some pretty great stuff. Not classic Bronze Age comic type of stuff, but... better modern day comics than what's going on at Marvel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcjames Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) Art is 1st. Like the examples given in this thread, many today's books are almost just sketches. I'll take mediocre story with fantastic art over great story with flat-sketched unimaginative art. It hurts to look at some of the stuff. Endless reboots and "re-imagining" legacy characters by having someone else (all new all different currently-diverse person) put the suit on instead of creating these new diverse characters with new "suits" (okay, artistic ownership supposedly stops artists from creating anything new... but it still makes for bad stories and worse characters, the why doesn't matter). Like was said about how non-white-male characters were introduced in the 60's and 70s - they were NEW CHARACTERS. They were also more interesting characters than a lot of what's "new" today. Original characters are a lot more interesting than, just the next one to fill the suit. (that's for the spandex-characters). For other books, some indies have erratic release schedules and, I have a short attention span, sorry. Whoever is keeping a running list of white-male leads vs everyone else here is basically doing exactly what many are complaining is happening in the Big2 - character checklists, acting like skin/gender/ethnic bean-counters... which really makes a storyline pop doesn't it? (sarcasm) That's just a couple reasons. Grumpy white-beard talking here.... Edited February 4, 2019 by jcjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) I just don't think you could get away with writing Bronze Age type of stories today. Kids are growing up playing Mature Themed Video games by the time they're 6-7 years old. I know Heavy Metal and the Curtis Mags ruined it all for me - I thought the majority of regular Marvel Comics were ridiculously juvenile by the time I was 13-14 years old. I needed something with a bit more 'sturm und drang'... the mainstream stuff, other than what was going on in ASM at the time and Jim Starlin's Captain Marvel, just bored me in it's simplistic, formulaic style. Today's kids have access to the Internet at a VERY early age. Just thinking about that... and really, really thinking about that... is kinda scary. Edited February 4, 2019 by Chuck Gower fullerjason 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidTheDavid Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Sorry to be a contrarian, but I see a lot of people who say they don't read comics commenting about the quality of comics, that they presumably don't read. And the number of people who have unique insight into the corporate workings of both Marvel and DC is a bit...astonishing. Little did I know the connections you people have! It sounds like a lot of group think going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Pontoon Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: 18 minutes ago, F For Fake said: Seth can be a little chillier than Matt and Chet Brown, as the nature of their work was very much autobio, while I think Seth's stuff is more narrative storytelling with a little autobio thrown in here and there. I'd recommend "It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken", which collects his most celebrated Palookaville storyline. It's probably the best example of his blending autobio and fiction. It has that melancholy that I tend to associate with the Drawn & Quarterly books of that era, but it's also a celebration of classic cartooning. If you like Joe Matt and Chester Brown, I think you might dig it! Cool, I'll check it out! They’re all great, and at least worth a read. If you enjoy “It’s a Good Life” try George Sprott Any of the hardcover Palookavilles. He ceased making floppies years ago Wimbeldon Green Unlike F for Fake, I thought Clyde Fans was swell. I find his comics as rich as a full-on novel. Edited February 4, 2019 by Dick Pontoon Prince Namor and F For Fake 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan510 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: Yeah, maybe Deadpool, Venom thrown in there. Not too many that have stuck though. See... I don't think it's just a talent thing. I've read a lot of those creators who've left Marvel and went to Image... Kirkman, Brubaker/Phillips, Remender, BKV, etc.... and it's all some pretty great stuff. Not classic Bronze Age comic type of stuff, but... better modern day comics than what's going on at Marvel. I'm surprised I forgot those two, especially Deadpool who's turned into big franchise for them. So basically 4 impact characters since 1974. Not exactly Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's creative output the first several years of Marvel circa 1961. Would you consider Guardians of the Galaxy franchise characters? Until the movies I think it would've been generous to label them B listers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F For Fake Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Pontoon said: They’re all great, and at least worth a read. If you enjoy “It’s a Good Life” try George Sprott Any of the hardcover Palookavilles. He ceased making floppies years ago Wimbeldon Green Unlike F for Fake, I thought Clyde Fans was swell. I find his comics as rich as a full-on novel. I'm thinking I might enjoy Clyde Fans in a collected format, or at least I expect I'd enjoy it a lot more than I did in serialized form. Waiting for those books to come out in dribs and drabs, and such brief reads once they arrived, it just never gained any momentum for me. Still a big fan of his cartooning and sense of design, that story just didn't grab me. Like I said before, though, i owe it another shot. Oh yeah, Wimbledon Green was a great deal of fun! I think HPB had a buyout on them at one point, you could always find new copies at those stores for a few bucks, for at least a year or two. Probably dried up by now, but still a fun book for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan510 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said: Sorry to be a contrarian, but I see a lot of people who say they don't read comics commenting about the quality of comics, that they presumably don't read. And the number of people who have unique insight into the corporate workings of both Marvel and DC is a bit...astonishing. Little did I know the connections you people have! It sounds like a lot of group think going on. The first part I agree with. Not sure why you're astonished about the bolded part. The information is out there if you look for it or ask the right people. fullerjason 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Pontoon Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, F For Fake said: I'm thinking I might enjoy Clyde Fans in a collected format, or at least I expect I'd enjoy it a lot more than I did in serialized form. Waiting for those books to come out in dribs and drabs, and such brief reads once they arrived, it just never gained any momentum for me. Still a big fan of his cartooning and sense of design, that story just didn't grab me. Like I said before, though, i owe it another shot. Oh yeah, Wimbledon Green was a great deal of fun! I think HPB had a buyout on them at one point, you could always find new copies at those stores for a few bucks, for at least a year or two. Probably dried up by now, but still a fun book for sure! That makes sense. I only read the collected first edition, and the the second when it came our much later. F For Fake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, Logan510 said: I'm surprised I forgot those two, especially Deadpool who's turned into big franchise for them. So basically 4 impact characters since 1974. Not exactly Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's creative output the first several years of Marvel circa 1961. Would you consider Guardians of the Galaxy franchise characters? Until the movies I think it would've been generous to label them B listers. For sure. I don't even think the Dan Slott comics that most of it was somewhat based on were ever really great sellers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
