Why people hate most modern books 3 3

[rjpb]

19 hours ago, kav said:

During the silver age people didnt hate silver age books-during the bronze age people didnt hate bronze age books during the copper age people didnt hate copper age books-now we're in the modern age and people generally find them despicable.  Sure there are exceptions but what's the reason for the general distaste?  Is this the only age where books have been generally despised?

With some exceptions, I found BA books, especially Marvel, sorely lacking while a kid in the early 70s. I'd compare them to their SA counterparts, and wonder how things went downhill so fast. 

[musicmeta]

19 hours ago, kav said:

I think you summed it up nicely.  I really hate slick paper for comics-the glare makes it hard to read no matter how you try to hold it in the light.  Bring newsprint back PLS!!  And stories designed for kids.  The adult themed stories are inevitably stupid AF.  Some exceptions sure.  But dialogue learned from watching TV dramas and sitcoms-UGH

I say bring back the paper from the Silver/Bronze age! That  felt like a "comic book"!

[Ken Aldred]

12 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

I'm not familiar with Supergrandma and SuperTransvestite (and I don't WANT to be!), but the others were created during the Silver Age...

Wasn't there a Super-Transvestite imaginary story involving Superman getting exposed to Red Kryptonite?

Kav could confirm this.

[musicmeta]

Saga is pretty good reading to me anyway.

[Ken Aldred]

9 minutes ago, musicmeta said:

Saga is pretty good reading to me anyway.

I'm tending to read much more Image than DC or Marvel.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Ken Aldred

[Artboy99]

15 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

I'm tending to read much more Image than DC or Marvel.

my entire reading pile, all 2 feet high of it is all moderns. BUT, the title of the thread is Why people hate most modern books

[batman_fan]

At a high level, comics suffer the same problem as Sears and JC Penny and are going through similar attempts to turn things around.

1.  Aging demographic with ever decreasing number of younger customers.  Short term you are fine but 10 to 20 tears out looks pretty scary.

2.  Try everything possible to bring in the younger demographics

3.  When item 2 doesn't work try even more desperate things to gain the younger demographic

4.  Go out of business.

[RCheli]

8 hours ago, NamesJay said:

I’m not a fan or art produced on computer. Especially digital coloring. And of course that would only apply to moderns. 

You don't like Brian Bolland? He draws exclusively on the computer now and is fantastic.

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, Artboy99 said:

Go read some of the comics from last year and you may find it isn't the same old stuff.

 

I've read comics over the last year. It helps that I'm not offended by characters who are a different race, gender or sexual preference than me. The world has different types of people. 

1 hour ago, Artboy99 said:

Let's use SheHulk as an example.

She-Hulk is watching a live stream about a gay man baking a cake.

 

You mean a web series about baking? Two of the characters are gay and that bothers you?

News flash: There are gay people in the world around you.

How is that Social Justice? 

1 hour ago, Artboy99 said:

The filmers of the video poison the chef in an effort to increase the views of the stream to further their own careers and a strange green monster is created which gets SheHulk into "action". I quote action because it takes the writer 2 entire books before SheHulk finally does something and all she did was jump off a building. You have to go into book 3 to actually see SheHulk fight the creature.

 

This is all about the lame content of the stories, not what you call SJW content. I could pull just as many lame stories from comics in the Bronze Age as I could today.

1 hour ago, Artboy99 said:

These modern stories seem to be about race, genders and social comments on issues in the world. In the case of the books I describe above the comment is about the popularity of a gay man's baking video stream and the heterosexual people imposing their beliefs upon the man ...it is all about social justice warriors I am sorry to inform you.

The example you used had a gay couple who host a baking show. If that offends you... I guess comics are different.

Maybe we can go back to the days when no gay people were allowed to be written about in comics, and black superheroes were considered 'unsellable'?

[Prince Namor]

Good thing they stayed away from Social Issues in the Silver and Bronze age! (Sarcasm)

[Prince Namor]

[500Club]

10 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

10 hours ago, 500Club said:

I don’t think it’s ever been taken to the extreme that it has in the last ten years, though.  Hulk derivatives, Spider-Man derivatives, symbiotes out the wazoo, characters with claws and healing factors, amalgamated characters... please, lord, just let it stop.

 That's true, but what do you expect? Creators have seen older creators get nothing for creating multi-million dollar characters that led to multi-billion dollar corporate acquisitions and see no reason to give away their best ideas for a pittance when they can just modify the toys that are already in the playground.

OK.  That serves as an argument as to why this trend exists, but it doesn’t counter the fact that the trend exists, and is a valid response to the OP’s question.

Also, hasn’t the royalty structure changed to the point where it’d be lucrative to create a character, and have that character go on to great heights?

[newshane]

21 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

I can think of a few reasons.

1. Paper stock. I just read Marvel's latest release of Conan the Barbarian and the cover stock felt flimsy and cheap and I felt the comic would fall apart at any moment.

2. Changes of characters to satisfy social justice warriors. Keep characters the same, I don't want to see a popular character in a new version. Invent a new character instead of ruining the old guard thanks.

1. Number 1! Number 1. New all new #1. Etc.

4. Variant of the variant of the variant. I go to a comic store and see a book on the shelf and I have no idea if I own it or not because there are so many covers to the same book.

5. Superman, Supergirl, Superdog, Supergrandma, SuperTransvestite. Why cant we have originality!

Hit the nail on the head...

also, a general decline in art quality. 

That being said, there are some diamonds in the rough. Always have been and always will. I see pop music through the same lens.  

I used to collect moderns exclusively, but the variant chase burned me totally out (THANKS SPAWN) and I will never, ever go back. 

So, for me, number 4 is by far the biggest issue. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by newshane

[500Club]

5 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

10 hours ago, 500Club said:

They invented new characters, as Artboy99 suggested.

They did? I thought after Kirby left, Marvel just continued to regurgitate his ideas. That's what I saw.

Some created variations of old ones. For every Ultron he created (which isn't all that original) Roy Thomas throughout the Silver Age took old Golden Age heroes and reintroduced/reimagined them into his stories as well as taking characters like Frankenstein and vampires and reimagining them - while bringing back the occasional return villain.

For every Wolverine that was created at Marvel during the Bronze and Copper Age, there are plenty of She Hulks, and Monica Rambaux as Captain Marvel, and War Machine's to go around.

My response was in regard to the idea of diversification, and Artboy99’s having noted Marvel’s SJW trend toward replacing core characters with minorities.  You’d noted similar attempts in the 70’s and 80’s, with GSX 1, Black Panther et al.   I’d responded that at that point, diversification had been accomplished with new characters.

[newshane]

Just now, 500Club said:

My response was in regard to the idea of diversification, and Artboy99’s having noted Marvel’s SJW trend toward replacing core characters with minorities.  You’d noted similar attempts in the 70’s and 80’s, with GSX 1, Black Panther et al.   I’d responded that at that point, diversification had been accomplished with new characters.

Yes. I don't have a problem with diversity. I think everyone needs a hero with whom they can relate. 

But re-writing characters who were established in the 60s is not the proper route to take. 

[newshane]

1 hour ago, Ken Aldred said:

I'm tending to read much more Image than DC or Marvel.

Image has far better writing. I can't even pick up a recent DC or Marvel. Total junk. 

[batman_fan]

26 minutes ago, 500Club said:

My response was in regard to the idea of diversification, and Artboy99’s having noted Marvel’s SJW trend toward replacing core characters with minorities.  You’d noted similar attempts in the 70’s and 80’s, with GSX 1, Black Panther et al.   I’d responded that at that point, diversification had been accomplished with new characters.

The 70s and 80s was totally different.  GSX1 introduced new characters from a more diverse background, Black Panther was black from day 1.  Any of the stories where Lois Lane became black was for one story in one book.  I don't really see a comparison.  I think the trend today is to try and bring in a new much younger customer base and this is the idea they came up with.  Seems like it has alienated some of the existing customer base.  Did it bring in more than it pushed ?  Sales number should say whether it was a net positive.  For the publishers, it is critical that they find some mechanism to bring in a new young crowd or they are dead.  All of us old customers aren't going to sustain the media for the next 20 to 50 years, they have to get new young people in that they can lock in for the next several decades.

[Prince Namor]

34 minutes ago, 500Club said:

My response was in regard to the idea of diversification, and Artboy99’s having noted Marvel’s SJW trend toward replacing core characters with minorities.  You’d noted similar attempts in the 70’s and 80’s, with GSX 1, Black Panther et al.   I’d responded that at that point, diversification had been accomplished with new characters.

Who’ve they replaced?

Edited February 3, 2019 by Chuck Gower

[mysterymachine]

I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't have the time or the money to sift through the hundreds of titles being printed today. I know there are good books out there but everyone has different tastes. I didn't think Miracle Man deserved the hype for example, and as someone else stated, there are way too many variants. Many of which don't even have good artwork.  Money wise it is an easy choice to spend my extra money on silver and bronze age books that I grew up with over the modern day market.

[Prince Namor]

The idea that Marvel will never use Wolverine again and instead will have X-23 permanently in his place is silly. 

Then again, it’s the simple minded thinking of comic book readers in the first place that has allowed this transparent-to-every-one-else type of deception to go on and on and on. 

It’s also a great talking point for bigots.