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If you don't love the artform...
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32 posts in this topic

I'm sure my first real comic I picked up was Archie double digest at some gas station on our yearly drive to Mexico. Soon after I discovered Spider-Man comics thanks to trips to a comic shop with to my older brother who eventually introduced me to the  X-Men (Claremont and Byrne) and Frank Miller (Daredevil). On and off. On and off, like some love relationship that was meant to be but never at the right time. Eventually I found it again. 

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I still feel this way as I scroll through 1000s of books each month. The ones I want, the ones I’ve had :cry:, and of course the ones I will never own. But alas I often find a book or I guess you could say that the book finds me, much so that I’m willing to part with other books and art I once felt the same way about. Possibly part thrill of the hunt and part impulse but until it’s in hand and only at that time will I know for sure if I made the right decision. I buy and sell lots of stuff in my world and I do have me a stash of cool stuff that I’d hate to part with but I know there will always come a day that makes me rearrange the war chest just a bit. Sometimes it’s an extreme makeover, sometimes just a tweekin. Always find myself constantly looking at books for keepers first and then it’s for flipsies.

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Some of my favorite series in my collection are the ones with no hype and no skyrocketing values. Like Savage Sword of Conan for instance. No movie hype for Conan (although I do love Conan the Barbarian and Conan the Destroyer from the 80s). Just great art and stories. I feel the same way about Master of Kung Fu, although I recently heard there is movie hype for even that now (never thought that would happen), but already having the full run helps to not have to deal with over inflated prices. 

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6 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

I'm sure my first real comic I picked up was Archie double digest at some gas station on our yearly drive to Mexico. Soon after I discovered Spider-Man comics thanks to trips to a comic shop with to my older brother who eventually introduced me to the  X-Men (Claremont and Byrne) and Frank Miller (Daredevil). On and off. On and off, like some love relationship that was meant to be but never at the right time. Eventually I found it again. 

:flipbait:

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18 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

But if you have no interest in the artform, when the crashes come, and they always come, there will be nothing to keep you. And the less interest in the artform there is, the harder the crashes will be, because there will be nothing to keep others like you.

I got done preaching in the Key app thread, so I wont roll that out again, but I'm with you on this.  If you dont love what you have, why bother having it?

I wonder if we have a downturn coming soon.  DC movies arent getting any better, and the actors who play Marvel's big three Avengers are done with their contracts.  This could very well be a jumping off point for people whose interest in comics is heavily weighted in the movies.  Start taking those people out of the back issue market, and how many buyers for movie hype books at movie hype prices will remain?

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11 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I think there have been some that, in expressing their appreciation, have overstated the significance and “meaning” of comics books. I don’t want to make the same mistake of making comics out to be something more than they are. 

However, I’ve come to appreciate that comic books are a unique storytelling medium in that there are some things that can only be affectively be accomplished through the medium of comics.

When I was growing up I remember discussing comics and toys with friends and a comment that would invariable be made was “wouldn’t it be cool if they made that into a movie”  As if adaptation to film was the ultimate compliment, the highest medium a story could achieve.   

True, just as with books and TV shows, comic book stories can be adapted to film.  And it is nice that we’ve reached a point in time where comics can be successfully adapted to film in a way that they previously hadn’t experienced. 

But as much as I like the Netflix Daredevil TV series, it will never fully capture Miller’s storytelling via the original comics - the use of shadows and negative space, panel placement and composition, etc. 

Whether the new Hellboy movie is good or not time will tell, but regardless I’m convinced it will never match what it’s like to experience Mignola’s visual style in the comic. 

And if they ever do get around to adapting the Anatomy Lesson, even if they somehow managed to recreate the story panel-for-panel, I know it still won’t contain the full scope of what’s in that comic story. 

I think some make the mistake of assuming that because comics resemble movie storyboards that the adaptation from one medium to the other is just a given and the two mediums are now nearly interchangeable. 

While I’ve enjoyed many of the recent comic inspired films, just as I believe a movie, no matter how good it is, can never replace the book it’s based on, so too I believe these comic movies can never replace the entertainment experience of reading the comics. 

That’s not to say that all comics are “high art”. Just as with books and films, there’s the cream, then a sizable number that are decent, and then the vast majority that are various degrees of not great. 

But whether the comic is a masterpiece or junk, it’s true in both case that there are some things that ONLY work in comics and that’s the only way to enjoy them. 

So in addition to the overemphasis on speculative value I would add: don’t dismiss comics as simply grist for the next Hollywood film, as if adaption to a movie were the end-all, be-all of a comic’s worth. 

No matter how good the movie is, there’s a unique entertainment experience with these characters that can only be had through the comics. 

Great post!

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17 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I think there have been some that, in expressing their appreciation, have overstated the significance and “meaning” of comics books. I don’t want to make the same mistake of making comics out to be something more than they are. 

However, I’ve come to appreciate that comic books are a unique storytelling medium in that there are some things that can only be affectively be accomplished through the medium of comics.

When I was growing up I remember discussing comics and toys with friends and a comment that would invariable be made was “wouldn’t it be cool if they made that into a movie”  As if adaptation to film was the ultimate compliment, the highest medium a story could achieve.   

True, just as with books and TV shows, comic book stories can be adapted to film.  And it is nice that we’ve reached a point in time where comics can be successfully adapted to film in a way that they previously hadn’t experienced. 

But as much as I like the Netflix Daredevil TV series, it will never fully capture Miller’s storytelling via the original comics - the use of shadows and negative space, panel placement and composition, etc. 

Whether the new Hellboy movie is good or not time will tell, but regardless I’m convinced it will never match what it’s like to experience Mignola’s visual style in the comic. 

And if they ever do get around to adapting the Anatomy Lesson, even if they somehow managed to recreate the story panel-for-panel, I know it still won’t contain the full scope of what’s in that comic story. 

I think some make the mistake of assuming that because comics resemble movie storyboards that the adaptation from one medium to the other is just a given and the two mediums are now nearly interchangeable. 

While I’ve enjoyed many of the recent comic inspired films, just as I believe a movie, no matter how good it is, can never replace the book it’s based on, so too I believe these comic movies can never replace the entertainment experience of reading the comics. 

That’s not to say that all comics are “high art”. Just as with books and films, there’s the cream, then a sizable number that are decent, and then the vast majority that are various degrees of not great. 

But whether the comic is a masterpiece or junk, it’s true in both case that there are some things that ONLY work in comics and that’s the only way to enjoy them. 

So in addition to the overemphasis on speculative value I would add: don’t dismiss comics as simply grist for the next Hollywood film, as if adaption to a movie were the end-all, be-all of a comic’s worth. 

No matter how good the movie is, there’s a unique entertainment experience with these characters that can only be had through the comics. 

I agree with a lot of this, but I think there are a lot of artists that don't take advantage of the artform. A lot of comics feel just like storyboards. 

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A huge portion of the comics market is superheroes, and today's superhero comics are pretty lame. I can't help but read them and think, "I've read this story idea before..." I can still dig the art by some of these younger guys.... Jon Davis-Hunt, Javier Rodriquez... I just find the stories to be dull. It's all repeated ideas.

Luckily for me, I'm not infatuated with the CHARACTERS, which have become mere shells of what they once were, but rather with the ARTFORM. And there is plenty that's still interesting out there (I pick up everything that Brubaker/Phillips do), even if some of my favorites are slow at bringing them out (Hernandez Brothers, Clowes, Burns).

I can still discover work by creators I had previously not seen before, like Moebius' Madwoman of the Sacred Heart or Jacques Tardi's It Was The War of the Trenches, or... am I on the wrong forum?

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53 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Jacques Tardi's It Was The War of the Trenches

That's an excellent graphic novel.

Much more hard-hitting than the British equivalent, Charley's War.

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On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 8:32 PM, KirbyJack said:

As long as I have a way to revisit this page every once in a while, I will love comics.

227156DF-F34F-4526-BE31-3229B537E3CD.thumb.jpeg.22e8dabdbf60a87cb630ab46133e4abf.jpeg

I love what appears to be an eye roll from Ben

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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 4:35 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

...and all you see in a comic is "how much is this worth?", you're depriving yourself of universes of wonder, joy, and lifetimes of excitement and fun.

Short background: I got into comics at the age of 17, not having read them as a child. I found some comics at a used book store for 50 cents, comics that had cover prices of $2.50 and $2.95...including this one:

71i35KevC8L._SY445_.jpg

I thought I had stumbled on a get-rich-quick scheme: buying these comics for 50 cents, then selling them for cover price to others. Who wouldn't want to pay cover price for old comics, after all...?

Oops. 

But, in the process, I discovered something about comics: they're actually not half bad. In fact, some of them are pretty great. I developed an eye for artists, and an ear for writers, and learned to follow their work. I learned about what motivated Magneto, why Batman needed a Robin, why Wolverine was so angry all of the time, and how Guy Gardner got taken out with just one punch. One punch! And unlike Black Canary, I didn't miss it.

And while I appreciate (no pun intended) the fact that comics can become more valuable (sometimes rather quickly), and I like owning those books...because then I can buy more books!...that's not the reason I collect them. There are entire universes out there to be explored, and there is literally something for everyone, whether you like super heroes, melodrama, price variants, Disney, mini-series, first appearances, artwork, heck, even letters of comment...comics has it all, and then some. 

But if you have no interest in the artform, when the crashes come, and they always come, there will be nothing to keep you. And the less interest in the artform there is, the harder the crashes will be, because there will be nothing to keep others like you. I understand where you're coming from: we're in a period right now, with all the movie excitement, that is unprecedented. Comics are worth more than they ever have been, and since 2009, it doesn't look like anything has really lost its value; indeed, prices today are setting records over and over again. Just when you think "this CAN'T go higher!" it does, and then double that, and then triple that. 

Eventually, however, the culture will move on, as it always does, and when that happens, it's going to be bloody.

This is not an anti-speculation screed. Speculation is not necessarily bad, in an appropriate context. Speculation is exciting...I get it...but if all comics are to you is a vehicle to make $$$, if you care nothing about the book in your hand other than "how much is this worth?"...you're cheating yourself of one of the greatest artforms ever created. 

It's an amazing artform. An American classic, just as rich and diverse as any film, TV production, or novel. There are worlds to discover, right at your fingertips. 

 

PS. I still have that copy of Alien Nation #1, that I bought 30 years ago this summer, in a used book store in a little town called Willits, CA. Never did manage to get rich with it. ;)

 

Some of us can enjoy the medium, but also have financial issues, kids to pay for, roofs to fix, etc. So when some previously worthless dollar box book is now a $50 book, whatever fondness I have for Jack Kirby's chunky human form goes out the window and the book gets sold. "How much is it worth" can also just be an evaluation of priorities. So even if you're collecting its triage...space concerns, money concerns, upgrading concerns. With that said, while I have done close to $2700 in sales the last 2 months... Alas, it seems that less than $1,000 of that went into my bank account! But I do have some nice books to show for it! (And probably a few I now regret...)

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