How come? 0

[Hollywood1892]

If you have C.O.A

CGC will still give it green label?

I have a signed copy of RAI 0 and Vengeance of Bane 2nd print. I even have COAs on both and pictures with Jim Shooter signing the book. I dont understand why CGC wont authenticate it, on pawn stars when someone brings in something autographed they call in an authenticator.

As the lead source on grading comics, wouldn't it be a good idea to hire someone who strictly authenticates autographs?

[slpfi27]

Greetings, Hollywood1892

I too asked that question,

Example: Jack Kirby passed away prior to the founding of CGC, so no Jack Kirby Yellow Labels will ever be found. That's kind of sad! However, COA's like anything else can be counterfeited or created by unscrupulous people out there. A CGC Yellow Label leaves absolutely NO possibility as to authenticity of the signature. One could say a CGC Yellow Label is the GOLD Standard of Signatures. 

A COA is a COA

Example: if you have a Jack Kirby signature book by "Bobs Collectibles", you can always submit it to CGC (keep your "Bobs Collectibles" COA and Pictures as they do not use them), secure the Grade and include the COA when you sell it. Now you have a Green Label CGC Graded Book with a COA. Now the buyer knows the condition of the book they are purchasing.

What is the Impression of a Green Label?

Problem: I feel as a Collector a Green or Purple Label simply states the book was modified in someway. Thus implying it is a defect or modified book and not as Valuable as Blue, or Yellow Label. CGC does not want to take a chance on their reputation with another Authentication service and so they have STRICT guidelines as to what they feel a signature book is. 

Solution:  As you stated, CGC should consider authenticating signatures and perhaps create an Orange label that reflects that they DID NOT SEE, the Signature, but they AUTHENTICATED it. This label would mean that CGC recognized the Authentication of the Signature, they verified it, and it APPEARS to be the correct Signature. However, CGC did not actually SEE the signature take place. A note would appear on the slab like.. "CGC Verified the signature appears to be Jack Kirby as noted by Bobs Collectibles" Thus, the Yellow Label would remain as it is currently, but there would be a new COLOR label for a NON-Witnessed CGC Signature that was verified by them to be MOST LIKELY real. It would satisfy a lot of people I think. Certainly sounds like a way to make the Collector and CGC happy while keeping CGC's well established reputation intact.

That's my two cents, but what do I know...

Sincerely, 

Brian W / slpfi27

 

[Nino_013]

Some great answers here

[Turtle]

2 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

If you have C.O.A

CGC will still give it green label?

I have a signed copy of RAI 0 and Vengeance of Bane 2nd print. I even have COAs on both and pictures with Jim Shooter signing the book. I dont understand why CGC wont authenticate it, on pawn stars when someone brings in something autographed they call in an authenticator.

As the lead source on grading comics, wouldn't it be a good idea to hire someone who strictly authenticates autographs?

Unscrupulous sellers (not just in comics, many collectible fandoms) have made Certificates of Authenticity more or less a joke.  They work well as a means of establishing provenance of the item, but the signature on it is only as legitimate as the person who created the COA.  COA's can be made in mass quantities by absolutely anyone.  If you plan on being in this hobby long, I'd recommend treating them as nothing more than a quirky extra.  Don't treat COA's as concrete evidence that the signature is legitimate. 

CGC's Signature Series, when you think about it, is just a form of COA with a few extra perks (verification + grading + restoration detection + encapsulation).  Every Sig Series book has a signature that has been witnessed by someone CGC as a company trusts.  Once the book is signed, the witness keeps the book in their possession until it gets into CGC's hands so the chain of custody is never broken.  Because CGC trusts their witnesses, they can certify that the books they send in are 100% verified as authentic because the witness physically watched the book signed by the creator listed on the form. 

Any book not signed in front of a witness has a questionable element to it.  You could have a COA.  You could have video evidence of the person signing your book.  You could take it back to the creator and have them verify the signature.  It doesn't matter.  Forgers, liars, and scammers will always find ways to exploit these conditions.  Since the Signature Series label is based exclusively on trust, CGC will maintain high standards to maintain that trust.  If they started incorporating questionable elements into the process, the public trust would be broken and the Signature Series program would crumble. 

 

[Hollywood1892]

1 hour ago, Turtle said:

Unscrupulous sellers (not just in comics, many collectible fandoms) have made Certificates of Authenticity more or less a joke.  They work well as a means of establishing provenance of the item, but the signature on it is only as legitimate as the person who created the COA.  COA's can be made in mass quantities by absolutely anyone.  If you plan on being in this hobby long, I'd recommend treating them as nothing more than a quirky extra.  Don't treat COA's as concrete evidence that the signature is legitimate. 

CGC's Signature Series, when you think about it, is just a form of COA with a few extra perks (verification + grading + restoration detection + encapsulation).  Every Sig Series book has a signature that has been witnessed by someone CGC as a company trusts.  Once the book is signed, the witness keeps the book in their possession until it gets into CGC's hands so the chain of custody is never broken.  Because CGC trusts their witnesses, they can certify that the books they send in are 100% verified as authentic because the witness physically watched the book signed by the creator listed on the form. 

Any book not signed in front of a witness has a questionable element to it.  You could have a COA.  You could have video evidence of the person signing your book.  You could take it back to the creator and have them verify the signature.  It doesn't matter.  Forgers, liars, and scammers will always find ways to exploit these conditions.  Since the Signature Series label is based exclusively on trust, CGC will maintain high standards to maintain that trust.  If they started incorporating questionable elements into the process, the public trust would be broken and the Signature Series program would crumble. 

 

Thanks😊

[revat]

They have a business model.  It works for them.   They've built want amounts a monopoly for signatures.  They could open another stream of revenue, but it would dilute the value of the signature series.  They choose not to.  I'm sure they've considered it from the economic side.  The odds are that they have a better grasp of their situation than we do.  And the odds are that they would not share the substance of their analysis with the public.  Why doesn't mcdonalds sell pizza?  Plenty of restaurants sell burgers and pizza and are successful.

[slpfi27]

I agree with you 100% I think this pretty much sum's it up. No laying the Golden Goose idea's here. Anything we say I am sure they are thinking about. Can I get a Cheese Burger with my Fries revat? 

[Pirate]

Do a google search for operation bullpen.  It will open you eyes.  Then ask why does't CGC do signature verification for non witnessed signatures again.

[Hollywood1892]

That is insane 

Thanks pirate, heavy reading