Overpriced 1st appearances 3 3

[FineCollector]

6 hours ago, newshane said:

Furthermore, GSXM 1 isn't even the exclusive first appearance of the X-men! What about UXM - 94? Much better cover than GSXM and harder to find in top condition thanks to the dark cover. 

Not to mention the fact that GSXM1 is simply an ugly book aesthetically. 

Personal preference, I'd say.  I like the cover of GSX 1 better.  Rarity in high grade is what keeps the price of XMen 94 up, although I dont see the fuss about it.  It's a 2nd appearance, and nothing happens in it.  Plane takes off, and goes poof.  95 is a far better book than 94.

Anyone else think the tv heroes (Runaways, Exiles, New Mutants) are going back into bins when their shows finish?  Cloak and Dagger might stick, but not the other Spectacular appearances.

[HuddyBee]

Just because you love a character or they have good art doesn't mean they aren't C-level. Swamp thing is C-level, maybe not for some of y'all, but ask any random person who swamp thing is, and you'll soon see he's C-level. I love Hawkman, but lets face it, he's a C-level character, his first appearance is also somewhat scarce, but just like swamp-thing, that shouldn't warrant a ridiculous price increase.

 

But hey, enough HOS 92 talk, what about Showcase 30, not even a first appearance or a key issue (maybe a minor key), yet its ridiculously expensive.

Edited February 24, 2019 by HuddyBee

[Naphtha]

59 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

Hardly.

Not all of us are profit-obsessed flippers.  It’s a great book and one of the most significant in my collection.

Flipping is how one builds a collection...It's not about money it's about being able to afford your grail issues.

[Naphtha]

1 hour ago, HuddyBee said:

But hey, enough HOS 92 talk, what about Showcase 30, not even a first appearance or a key issue (maybe a minor key), yet its ridiculously expensive.

Agreed!

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, HuddyBee said:

what about Showcase 30, not even a first appearance

Then it's of no relevance to this thread.

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, MadJimJaspers said:

Flipping is how one builds a collection.

Flipping is one thing some people do to help build their collections.

[Lazyboy]

8 hours ago, newshane said:

How can a C-level character have a movie (1982) AND a TV series that lasted three seasons (1990-1993) and another one in the works for 2019? 

Not to mention that the comic featured CLASSIC work by Alan Moore, Bernie Wrightston, and Jon Totleben.  

Also, the book was spread across FIVE titles over the years and won the following awards: 

Plus, click in the spoiler tag below to see a huge list of awards and nominations....

  Reveal hidden contents

Comics Buyer's Guide Fan Awards
Favorite Comic Book Story – Swamp Thing #53 (1986, ranked #6)
Favorite Comic Book – Swamp Thing (1986, ranked #1)
Favorite Character – Swamp Thing (1986, ranked #6)
Eisner Awards
Best Single Issue – Swamp Thing #75, by Rick Veitch (1989, nominated)
Best Single Issue or Story – Swamp Thing #113, by Nancy Collins, Tom Yeates, and Shepherd Hendrix (1992, nominated)
Best Editor – Stuart Moore, Swamp Thing, The Invisibles, Preacher (1996, tie)
Best Cover Artist – Phil Hale, Swamp Thing, Vertigo Secret Files, Flinch #11 (2001, nominated)
Harvey Awards
Best Letterer – John Costanza, for Swamp Thing (1988, nominated)
Best Continuing or Limited Series – Swamp Thing, by Rick Veitch and Alfredo Alcala (1988, nominated)
Best Writer – Rick Veitch, for Swamp Thing (1989, nominated)
Best Colorist – Tatjana Wood, for Swamp Thing (1989, nominated)
Jack Kirby Awards
Best Single Issue – Swamp Thing #32, by Alan Moore and Shawn McManus (1985, nominated)
Best Single Issue – Swamp Thing #34, by Alan Moore, Steve Bissette, and John Totleben (1985, nominated)
Best Single Issue – Swamp Thing Annual #2, by Alan Moore, Steve Bissette, and John Totleben (1985)
Best Continuing Series – Swamp Thing, by Alan Moore, Steve Bissette, and John Totleben (1985)
Best Writer – Alan Moore, for Swamp Thing (1985)
Best Art Team – Steve Bissette and John Totleben, for Swamp Thing (1985)
Best Cover – Swamp Thing #34, by Steve Bissette and John Totleben (1985)
Best Single Issue – Swamp Thing #43, by Alan Moore and Stan Woch (1986, nominated)
Best Continuing Series – Swamp Thing, by Alan Moore, Steve Bissette, and John Totleben (1986)
Best Writer – Alan Moore, for Swamp Thing (1986)
Best Writer/Artist – Alan Moore and Steve Bissette, for Swamp Thing (1986, nominated)
Best Art Team – Steve Bissette and John Totleben, for Swamp Thing (1986, nominated)
Best Continuing Series – Swamp Thing, by Alan Moore, Steve Bissette, and John Totleben (1987)
Best Writer – Alan Moore, for Swamp Thing (1986, nominated)
Best Art Team – Steve Bissette and John Totleben, for Swamp Thing (1987, nominated)
Shazam Awards
Best Individual Story (Dramatic Division) – "Dark Genesis," by Len Wein & Berni Wrightson, from Swamp Thing #1 (1972)
Best Writer (Dramatic Division) – Len Wein, for Swamp Thing (1972)
Best Penciller (Dramatic Division) – Berni Wrightson, for Swamp Thing (1972)
Best Continuing Feature – Swamp Thing (1973)
Best Individual Story (Dramatic Division) – "A Clockwork Horror," by Len Wein & Berni Wrightson, from Swamp Thing #6 (1973, nominated)
Best Writer (Dramatic Division) – Len Wein, for Swamp Thing (1973, nominated)
Best Penciller (Dramatic Division) – Berni Wrightson, for Swamp Thing (1973)
Best Inker (Dramatic Division) – Berni Wrightson, for Swamp Thing (1973, nominated)

 

A true C-level character would be someone like Marvel's Speedball or Bloodaxe. 

People on the street will likely know the name "Swamp Thing." 

You probably weren't around in the character's heyday during the 80s and early 90s, so I /might/ give you a break here. 

But you further say that the demand for HOS92 isn't there. 

Pfft. Swamp Thing is no Scooby-Doo.

[newshane]

2 hours ago, HuddyBee said:

Just because you love a character or they have good art doesn't mean they aren't C-level. Swamp thing is C-level, maybe not for some of y'all, but ask any random person who swamp thing is, and you'll soon see he's C-level. I love Hawkman, but lets face it, he's a C-level character, his first appearance is also somewhat scarce, but just like swamp-thing, that shouldn't warrant a ridiculous price increase.

 

But hey, enough HOS 92 talk, what about Showcase 30, not even a first appearance or a key issue (maybe a minor key), yet its ridiculously expensive.

 I would concede the notion of Swamp Thing as a B-level character, but never a C-level. 

Cult classic with enough impact to warrant a little better respect than a "C-level" description. 

Some people have short memories. If it's not currently hot, it's garbage. I don't agree. 

On the supply/demand end of the higher grade of the scale, HOS is worthy of some heat. Once again, classic cover by a legendary artist. Gorgeous grey tone. Healthy demand that outpaces the supply...

ask any of the major dealers and they will tell you that HOS92 is so hot that it trades hands amongst the dealers before the con floor opens up to the public. Do you guys spend time in the Bronze sales forum? Ever notice how much longer GSXMs sit in comparison? 

If you really care about my feel, and it's likely you don't, I'd say that pretty much any first appearance is overpriced, ESPECIALLY silver through modern. In fact, I think AF15 is overpriced. Yep. 

[Naphtha]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

Flipping is one thing some people do to help build their collections.

Some people weren't collecting when Hulk 1s were still selling for 5k. The only way to get grails in your box like that is to hustle up so there shouldn't be judgement for doing so. 

Trading up is nothing new and I'm not saying you are one of those people, but the condescension people throw for those who sell to buy doesn't make sense to me. I sold and traded a collection I had built for 7 years for one of my grails and I don't regret it for a second. I also think doing something like that has merit. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by MadJimJaspers

[HuddyBee]

28 minutes ago, newshane said:

In fact, I think AF15 is overpriced. Yep.

+1 

 

see my previous post

[Jonathan78]

G.I.Joe 21 is overpriced across all printings. First appearance of Stormshadow. Love the book and character, but it’s a 1980s book, height of the Joe craze, with many printed and numerous in high grade. Yes, it’s the infamous “silent” issue but does that warrant current prices?

[cosmic_surfer]

Hands down - Warewolf by Night 32 is the most overrated comic book right now. I don’t see any upside with that book. Do you guys seriously see MK headlining an MCU / Disney Movie? Might show up in Disney+ streaming but I’m sure it will be a tamed version, which will suck anyways. 

[godzilla43]

8 hours ago, Jonathan78 said:

G.I.Joe 21 is overpriced across all printings. First appearance of Stormshadow. Love the book and character, but it’s a 1980s book, height of the Joe craze, with many printed and numerous in high grade. Yes, it’s the infamous “silent” issue but does that warrant current prices?

Overpriced? You can get a VG/Fine copy for under 10$ even if it is a first print..

Edited February 25, 2019 by godzilla43

[FineCollector]

11 hours ago, MadJimJaspers said:

Some people weren't collecting when Hulk 1s were still selling for 5k. The only way to get grails in your box like that is to hustle up so there shouldn't be judgement for doing so. 

Trading up is nothing new and I'm not saying you are one of those people, but the condescension people throw for those who sell to buy doesn't make sense to me. I sold and traded a collection I had built for 7 years for one of my grails and I don't regret it for a second. I also think doing something like that has merit. 

Easier just to put a few dollars a week aside, like when you were buying a bike or a video game, no?

[RockMyAmadeus]

11 hours ago, Jonathan78 said:

G.I.Joe 21 is overpriced across all printings. First appearance of Stormshadow. Love the book and character, but it’s a 1980s book, height of the Joe craze, with many printed and numerous in high grade. Yes, it’s the infamous “silent” issue but does that warrant current prices?

This is not accurate. Why?

The "height of the Joe craze" was NOT December of 1983, which is when #21 was printed and distributed. The height of said craze was in 1985-1986, well after. That's why everything Joe up to about #29-#30 is relatively less common than everything after. It's why books in the 30s (1985) are really common, and why books in the 40s and 50s (1986) are ULTRA common. 

Don't believe me? Check out the SOOs (Statements of Ownership) from Joe #23, #34, =#46, and #57:

Total copies printed (avg):

#23 - 354,335. Single issue nearest to filing date: 363,962. (I believe this is the earliest SOO printed in Joe.)

#34 - 357,468. Single issue nearest to filing date: 344,156. <----- this would be the time period including #21

#46 - 449,081. Single issue nearest to filing date: 474,242.

#57 - 499,151. Single issue nearest to filing date: 534,350.

As you can see, the print runs ramped up considerably in 1985 and 1986.

(If anyone has the actual copies handy, and wants to provide the numbers SOLD, that would give an even clearer picture.)

By the way....virtually EVERYONE on the internet, including Lonestar and Grand Comics Database, is wrong about there not being 2nd printings of #3 and #4. There are, in fact, 2nd printings, and they were the FIRST reprints done on the title...in 1983! But they weren't "demand" reprints...they were reprints for Marvel to sell more copies to alternative markets (in this case, their bagged comics market.) They are not designated as "reprints" in any way, but the ads are from 1983...NOT 1982, when the originals were printed.

The interesting thing? The GCD article for #3 shows the cover image for the reprint!

Another interesting bit of trivia: there is, to date, NO KNOWN example of a "2nd print" #21. All the "reprints" say "3rd printing."

Edited February 25, 2019 by RockMyAmadeus
yay! typos!

[Jonathan78]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

This is not accurate. Why?

The "height of the Joe craze" was NOT December of 1983, which is when #21 was printed and distributed. The height of said craze was in 1985-1986, well after. That's why everything Joe up to about #29-#30 is relatively less common than everything after. It's why books in the 30s (1985) are really common, and why books in the 40s and 50s (1986) are ULTRA common. 

Don't believe me? Check out the SOOs (Statements of Ownership) from Joe #23, #34, =#46, and #57:

Total copies printed (avg):

#23 - 354,335. Single issue nearest to filing date: 363,962. (I believe this is the earliest SOO printed in Joe.)

#34 - 357,468. Single issue nearest to filing date: 344,156. <----- this would be the time period including #21

#46 - 449,081. Single issue nearest to filing date: 474,242.

#57 - 499,151. Single issue nearest to filing date: 534,350.

As you can see, the print runs ramped up considerably in 1985 and 1986.

(If anyone has the actual copies handy, and wants to provide the numbers SOLD, that would give an even clearer picture.)

By the way....virtually EVERYONE on the internet, including Lonestar and Grand Comics Database, is wrong about there not being 2nd printings of #3 and #4. There are, in fact, 2nd printings, and they were the FIRST reprints done on the title...in 1983! But they weren't "demand" reprints...they were reprints for Marvel to sell more copies to alternative markets (in this case, their bagged comics market.) They are not designated as "reprints" in any way, but the ads are from 1983...NOT 1982, when the originals were printed.

The interesting thing? The GCD article for #3 shows the cover image for the reprint!

Another interesting bit of trivia: there is, to date, NO KNOWN example of a "2nd print" #21. All the "reprints" say "3rd printing."

That is cool that you have the print run numbers.  Very helpful.  Ok, I am wrong that it was not quite released at the height of Joe fandom.  However, I still think the book is overpriced.  I am not questioning the demand at all, but with, if my math is correct, 922 graded copies on the census (93 in 9.8), the high grade supply is a little saturated for the amount of money this book is starting to get in those grades.

[ComicConnoisseur]

8 hours ago, cosmic_surfer said:

Hands down - Warewolf by Night 32 is the most overrated comic book right now. I don’t see any upside with that book. Do you guys seriously see MK headlining an MCU / Disney Movie? Might show up in Disney+ streaming but I’m sure it will be a tamed version, which will suck anyways. 

I don't know how the character would translate to film well. It looks like one of those costumes that looks interesting in comics, but in a real life action movie, well I don't know.

[ComicConnoisseur]

8 minutes ago, Jonathan78 said:

That is cool that you have the print run numbers.  Very helpful.  Ok, I am wrong that it was not quite released at the height of Joe fandom.  However, I still think the book is overpriced.  I am not questioning the demand at all, but with, if my math is correct, 922 graded copies on the census (93 in 9.8), the high grade supply is a little saturated for the amount of money this book is starting to get in those grades.

I think GI JOE #21 might actually be a sleeper now. GI JOE buzz is slow right now, so this might be the perfect time to pick up GI JOE keys before they make the next movie.

[ComicConnoisseur]

13 hours ago, newshane said:

Some people have short memories. If it's not currently hot, it's garbage. I don't agree. 

I agree with you on this one. A lot of these comic keys go thru cycles. Usually something that was once hot usually gets discovered again.

[F For Fake]

23 hours ago, oakman29 said:

HoS 92 being overpriced.  The book is just a great book. No movie hype, just stands on it's own merit.

Agree 100%. HoS 92 is a book that appeals to the "classic comic collector" archetype more so than the speculator. I'm assuming some of the recent interest is due to the upcoming tv series, but really, how much heat can a streaming-only, DC Universe website exclusive show really generate? This is a true KEY bronze book, no matter what happens in other media. 1st appearance (sorta) of a classic and enduring character that has inspired two films, an animated series, a kids' toy line,, a tv series, and now a new tv series; a character who has been in near constant publication ever since that debut; and a classic cover and story by one of the best comic artists to ever pick up a pencil.

I do think the price has been run up a little bit due to the flippers jumping on board, but Hos 92 is as sturdy and classic a bronze book as you can find. Values will probably come down once the series does whatever it's gonna do, but  the book is always going to be desirable.