• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Giant-Size X-Men #1 - get it now?
3 3

284 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, drotto said:

By the white page criteria it should be worth double correct? :baiting:;)

We will see how it all plays out.

That being said, I did have a couple of collectors discuss page quality on some early FFs I had. They passed on the CR-OW copies in the end. This was the first time I have ever had that come up as an issue at the local shows so it will be interesting to see whether this becomes a bigger issue going forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

I’ve sold at  cons for 15+ years now, and bought at cons since the 80s and many collectors that have bought from me at shows have almost always valued state of preservation of a comic (typically identified in slab comics by designated page quality, but raw by “freshness” or “bounciness” or sometimes color) as high as technical grade or other factors , and have in the majority of instances at least been willing to pay a premium for nicer or a want a discount for  lower pq if other options exist at time of purchase  

Now some might say gpa data doesn’t support this ( and that may be true since gpa is but a very small subset of  Cgc sales, with an even smaller set of overall sales (single digit %) and even much much much smaller set of same time/same venue truly comparable data-probably a fraction of a fraction of 1%, making that datas interpretation not a representation of the market at whole  ) but that’s not reality for many (not all of course) collectors (as has been stated time and time )

Ive found the newer generation of buyers (I’ve called them the Instagram generation) focus less on page quality and more on appearance of book in the slab because their intent is to post a picture on social media, and I think they rely on auctions for purchases more than con going or buying raw. But this newer generation , at least in my experience, doesn’t always place or even consider sometimes, the comics state of preservation (talking vintage only) , but over time I see that changing too, as collectors educate themselves more on the hobby 

just my opinion 

I've noticed the same. Always shocked at what some of these guys are willing to pay for copies with brittle pages....but I guess it doesn't matter if the book doesn't leave the CGC case. (shrug)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

I’ve sold at  cons for 15+ years now, and bought at cons since the 80s and many collectors that have bought from me at shows have almost always valued state of preservation of a comic (typically identified in slab comics by designated page quality, but raw by “freshness” or “bounciness” or sometimes color) as high as technical grade or other factors , and have in the majority of instances at least been willing to pay a premium for nicer or a want a discount for  lower pq if other options exist at time of purchase  

Now some might say gpa data doesn’t support this ( and that may be true since gpa is but a very small subset of  Cgc sales, with an even smaller set of overall sales (single digit %) and even much much much smaller set of same time/same venue truly comparable data-probably a fraction of a fraction of 1%, making that datas interpretation not a representation of the market at whole  ) but that’s not reality for many (not all of course) collectors (as has been stated time and time )

Ive found the newer generation of buyers (I’ve called them the Instagram generation) focus less on page quality and more on appearance of book in the slab because their intent is to post a picture on social media, and I think they rely on auctions for purchases more than con going or buying raw. But this newer generation , at least in my experience, doesn’t always place or even consider sometimes, the comics state of preservation (talking vintage only) , but over time I see that changing too, as collectors educate themselves more on the hobby 

just my opinion 

Respect the input but the bolded is simply untrue. 

GPA reports every single major auction house (except Comiclink), and not just online ones, as well as all the private sellers on ebay.

Easily enough data to glean averages and trends, much more so, I dare say, than the anecdotal accounts of individual dealers at a con. 2c

-J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Respect the input but the bolded is simply untrue. 

GPA reports every single major auction house (except Comiclink), and not just online ones, as well as all the private sellers on ebay.

Easily enough data to glean averages and trends, much more so, I dare say, than the anecdotal accounts of individual dealers at a con. 2c

-J.

Wayfair v. South Dakota

GPA is becoming increasingly less accurate every month.

Edited by MadJimJaspers
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Respect the input but the bolded is simply untrue. 

GPA reports every single major auction house (except Comiclink), and not just online ones, as well as all the private sellers on ebay.

Easily enough data to glean averages and trends, much more so, I dare say, than the anecdotal accounts of individual dealers at a con. 2c

-J.

Nothing anecdotal about GPA capturing single digit percentage of vintage Comics sold each year. 

 And I completely agree the GPA is wonderful for trends but it does nothing to support your theory about page quality sales unless you can provide same venue same grade differential page quality sales which GPA does not do 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Nothing anecdotal about GPA capturing single digit percentage of vintage Comics sold each year. 

 And I completely agree the GPA is wonderful for trends but it does nothing to support your theory about page quality sales unless you can provide same venue same grade differential page quality sales which GPA does not do 

And I could say the exact same thing about the opposing viewpoint. 

So what does it mean?

It means nothing.

-J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

And I could say the exact same thing about the opposing viewpoint. 

So what does it mean?

It means nothing.

-J.

It means if 99 out of 100 folks say the sky is blue, then it is probably blue (even if it looks green lol )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Call me crazy but I trust empirical data over word of mouth and anecdotes. :foryou:

-J.

If the data supported your position I would agree, but since gpa data doesn’t support either side (it’s not designed to these days, since most auction houses don’t sell same grade copies of same book so as not to dilute bidding pool) we then must rely on experience and common sense...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

If the data supported your position I would agree, but since gpa data doesn’t support either side (it’s not designed to these days, since most auction houses don’t sell same grade copies of same book so as not to dilute bidding pool) we then must rely on experience and common sense...

This is a straw man that you have set up.. It isn't a prerequisite to prove my point.  

-J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:
11 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

If the data supported your position I would agree, but since gpa data doesn’t support either side (it’s not designed to these days, since most auction houses don’t sell same grade copies of same book so as not to dilute bidding pool) we then must rely on experience and common sense...

This is a straw man that you have set up.. It isn't a prerequisite to prove my point.  

-J.

 

Only the most ignorant fools would pay premiums or even average prices for inferior copies. Luckily for sellers, there's no shortage of fools in the current market.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you check out Comiclink's sold listings for GSXM by looking in the (comics exchange) section they're pretty high in comparison with GPA for 9.8s. They don't indicate what the date of sales are but a couple of them went well above 12k.

I think page quality may not be so much of a factor in books that are "hot" in the sense that people just want to get their hands on one while they can. GSXM may fall in this category for the time being at least. Otherwise I can't see how it's not a factor? Unless there's really bad miswrapping or a terribly placed time stamp or something I'd think the white page will carry sway in what people will pay. I know it does with golden/silver age. Some bronze books for whatever reason are tough as hell to find in white pages so obviously it'll matter with those

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

If you check out Comiclink's sold listings for GSXM by looking in the (comics exchange) section they're pretty high in comparison with GPA for 9.8s. They don't indicate what the date of sales are but a couple of them went well above 12k.

I think page quality may not be so much of a factor in books that are "hot" in the sense that people just want to get their hands on one while they can. GSXM may fall in this category for the time being at least. Otherwise I can't see how it's not a factor? Unless there's really bad miswrapping or a terribly placed time stamp or something I'd think the white page will carry sway in what people will pay. I know it does with golden/silver age. Some bronze books for whatever reason are tough as hell to find in white pages so obviously it'll matter with those

 

You would be surprised how many people are aware of the utter and complete randomness and arbitrariness that is involved when CGC attempts to assess "page quality", and therefore take it with the appropriate grain of salt.

Also, if you really believe there is some substantive difference between "ow" and "white" in BA books, you are kidding yourself. 

-J.

Edited by Jaydogrules
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

You would be surprised how many people are aware of the utter and complete randomness and arbitrariness that is involved when CGC attempts to assess "page quality", and therefore take it with the appropriate grain of salt.

Also, if you really believe there is some substantive difference between "ow" and "white" in BA books, you are kidding yourself

-J.

I will disagree with you here. It is easy to spot the difference between W and OW in BA books. OW-W is a bit more difficult, but you can see a difference, especially between books from collections up here in relatively arid and cool Alberta vs. books from the US Eastern seaboard/SE. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, kimik said:

I will disagree with you here. It is easy to spot the difference between W and OW in BA books. OW-W is a bit more difficult, but you can see a difference, especially between books from collections up here in relatively arid and cool Alberta vs. books from the US Eastern seaboard/SE. 

Except "page quality" and page colour do not necessarily have any correlation to one another, e.g., you've seen people in this thread remark that books that say "white pages" on the label having yellowed covers.  Yet CGC evidently assesses the "quality" of the paper by the colour.

In reality, to any extent any real or meaningful or valid assessment of "page quality" that could be performed would be well beyond the qualifications of a comic book grader at CGC who's handling a comic book and saying "yeah, that feels 'white'".  Beyond books that are outright brittle, or near brittle, they really just don't know what they're talking about, and they knew that when they first started up, which is why they didn't even want to include "page quality" notes on their labels originally, because they know it's basically BS.  It was only because of the "old guard" dealers and collectors who basically insisted upon it that it got added.  And to this day, "page quality" grading remains notoriously pointless and inconsistent.

One last thing, in addition to being mostly arbitrary, the actual page quality of a book can degrade within the slab, even under optimal storage conditions, so that "white paged" book you might have paid a minor "premium" for back in 2008, may not be anymore even by CGC's loose-goosey standards.

-J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/8/2019 at 6:00 PM, kimik said:

So you are saying CGC is inconsistent? Then yes, I agree.

I was saying that I can spot the difference in page quality from color/suppleness/preservation/smell, etc. perspectives after buying so many collections over the years. It is not difficult after you have seen enough collections/raw books to tell the difference. If a collector/part-time seller like me can do it, then there are tons of others who can as well.

 

From what I understand, the graders compare the pages to color samples, to judge the whiteness.  Sounds like it should not be that subjective, but page quality is.

 

I have also heard rumors that the earlier grading was much harder on pages. Many people that resubmitted original labels after doing a clean in press, saw page quality and color bumped up.

Edited by drotto
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So much about page quality here lol geez

let’s talk about the main reason this book is hot...and there are many things going for this book atm...but 

1st appearance of storm imo. I think she’s be worth more than colossus even if they each came out separately. 

CF967F2B-BE71-4D22-A9A0-C6E9B2D7F45F.thumb.jpeg.05d8d2f0f6da1b2dc3cda3e4fba9e0bd.jpeg

Spoiler

Ps my copy has w pages too :shy:

 

Edited by jason4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, jason4 said:

So much about page quality here lol geez

let’s talk about the main reason this book is hot...and there are many things going for this book atm...but 

1st appearance of storm imo. I think she’s be worth more than colossus even if they each came out separately. 

CF967F2B-BE71-4D22-A9A0-C6E9B2D7F45F.thumb.jpeg.05d8d2f0f6da1b2dc3cda3e4fba9e0bd.jpeg

  Hide contents

Ps my copy has w pages too :shy:

 

If you are an X-Men fan it really is a pick your favorite 1st appearance book. Storm, Colossus,  Nightcrawler, and Thunderbird ( being complete here). Within the bronze age, there is not a bigger 1st appearance book based on shear numbers introduce.

Grant you going forward I think Storm is the big one, even if Nightcrawler is my favorite. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
3 3