ADAMANTIUM Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 My further point is... People who don't buy signature series see a book sell higher in grade and automatically think the seller made which is mostly not the case... per your example because you are not aware of what each signature cost... Nevermind the frazzeta or recently the Stan Lee. It's a misconception which artists are affecting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said: My quibble is not about the artist charge... They think the flippers are "making money" by your example the "seller" just lost $100 in the transaction BUT there are plenty of transactions where they made money-especially on otherwise worthless books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Just now, kav said: BUT there are plenty of transactions where they made money-especially on otherwise worthless books. Well let's put it this way... Some are ok with being a fan and getting a Sig and meeting the artist, as you did with Chuck... What's wrong with wanting that authenticated.... it means much more now a days to have it made "official" You laugh but that is the mind set, not right or wrong, people want proof of the Sig when they tell the story of I met so and so... It's bragging rights with a cgc guarantee, your telling me that you would buy a book that someone met somewhere with no provinance... Talk about all these unwitnessed sigs, and authenticators.... provenance matters... kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said: My point is if the 9.8 sells only $100 more in 9.8 the seller is losing money because it costs $200 to get liefeldand the other guys Sig authenticated... I though Sig series was $30 on a modern. Does that not include the $20 you spend on grading anyway? And if 2 guys sign at once do they charge $60??? Are you saying getting liefield and nicienza to sign costs another $170-140? I though liefield was at $30 for SS books? (Where did I read that?) Not sure how nicienza can justify charging more for SS if signing solo. Does he have an extra charge for NM 98? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Liebl Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, kav said: BUT there are plenty of transactions where they made money-especially on otherwise worthless books. Getting signatures from your "favorite" artist on worthless books... seems like they don't want the signature at all really, just the dough... granted little kids are excused from this observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayzr Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 45 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: The short answer is because the individual copy is far removed from the creator. The creator had nothing to do with producing the copies of his or her work. They just created the original. What you hold in your hand is a copy of a copy of a copy of the original work. So, having a creator sign a specific copy...to touch that copy...makes that copy more special to some, because it is a direct connection to that specific copy of their work. Regardless it still makes no sense too me. As a collector, why would you want to deface a collectible? Since its a copy of a copy of a copy... why write on it? What difference does it make as long as you have a verified signature? You still need to bring the book anyways. Not to mention if you ever crack the book out and your not getting another sig your out of luck as nobody will accept its as a verified signature anymore. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said: Some are ok with being a fan and getting a Sig and meeting the artist, as you did with Chuck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) Autographs on collectibles are pretty common. Folks were getting books signed long before comics And many a signed first edition from the right author go for a ton. I don't chase signatures but I totally understand their appeal, particularly if authenticated. Todd McFarlane signing his own book hardly seems like defacement. Edited February 27, 2019 by the blob ADAMANTIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, the blob said: I though Sig series was $30 on a modern. Does that not include the $20 you spend on grading anyway? And if 2 guys sign at once do they charge $60??? Are you saying getting liefield and nicienza to sign costs another $170-140? I though liefield was at $30 for SS books? (Where did I read that?) Not sure how nicienza can justify charging more for SS if signing solo. Does he have an extra charge for NM 98? Lefield is like 40 for a regular book, he charge a like $80 for the hits: NM 87 & 98..... the other guy charges 40 constantly, plus you have to pay the witness and grading fee of about $55 So we're talking $175 for a NM 98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 It saddens me that the nice conversations I had with john romita senior and Chris claremont getting books signed 25 years ago is now a financial transaction where they probably figure the fan will be flipping them. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayzr Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Just now, the blob said: Autographs on collectibles are pretty common. Folks were getting booms signed long before comics And many a signed first edition from the right author go for a ton. I don't chase signatures but I totally understand their appeal, particularly if authenticated. Todd McFarlane signing his own book hardly seems like defacement. Kirby himself could come back from the grave, signed Captain America #1 and he would be defacing it. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said: Lefield is like 40 for a regular book, he charge a like $80 for the hits: NM 87 & 98..... the other guy charges 40 constantly, plus you have to pay the witness and grading fee of about $55 So we're talking $175 for a NM 98 lordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 Just now, grayzr said: Kirby himself could come back from the grave, signed Captain America #1 and he would be defacing it. THIS for god sake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayzr Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Lefield has a god complex... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 It's kind of like selling a slabbed book, you want cgc to grade the book in order to ensure the reputation of the grade... Same with signature series.... There is a whole box at my half priced books of like 40 books with raw sigs... Sat there forever... If they were yellow label, whoever sold them might have at least got their total fees back, if these certain sigs meant anything to anybody @kav @the blob kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 minute ago, kav said: lordy 5 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said: Lefield is like 40 for a regular book, he charge a like $80 for the hits: NM 87 & 98..... the other guy charges 40 constantly, plus you have to pay the witness and grading fee of about $55 So we're talking $175 for a NM 98 I agree those charges are irrational. But they probably keep the supply of double signed nm 98s down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 minute ago, grayzr said: Lefield has a god complex... Not the god of feet tho. Or teeth. Or chests. Or legs. Or- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayzr Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said: It's kind of like selling a slabbed book, you want cgc to grade the book in order to ensure the reputation of the grade... Same with signature series.... There is a whole box at my half priced books of like 40 books with raw sigs... Sat there forever... If they were yellow label, whoever sold them might have at least got their total fees back, if these certain sigs meant anything to anybody @kav @the blob and if CGC would create a sig series with label sigs I might finally buy a CGc sig book. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, the blob said: If that is the case the market will let the talent know that their SS premium is stupid, no? But it's true I do see more wacky SS asking prices than sales. And that is perhaps what some artists are reacting to. Lives are finite. We have already lost many big name creators in the last 10 years. In a perfect world, where everyone lived forever, yes, the market would eventually get around and correct them...but Herb Trimpe and Stan Lee and Gene Colon and Joe Simon and Joe Kubert and Mike Turner and Norm Breyfogle and many, many others are done signing books in this lifetime. I don't think you've been paying attention to what I've been saying: creators are reacting to people in the industry...art reps and facilitators...who are lying to them, and telling them that people doing CGC are making "fat stacks of cash" off of them, and they need a cut of that...in fact, "here, let ME manage you, and I'll make sure you get your cut!!" (while, of course, ensuring they get THEIR cut, too, and all the free sigs they want, for themselves, naturally. It's quite the racket.) Or, they're being told "well, CGC is making money off of them, so you should, too!" (Nevermind that CGC performs a service requiring far more effort and resources than a signature.) THAT is what the creators are reacting to at this moment in time. When you have people lying to you like that, and nobody voicing the other side of the equation, what do you think is going to happen? Let me tell you, the "I'm sorry, I was told I had to charge more for CGC" statement has come out of the sheephish mouths of more than one creator that I have stood in front of. I paid it...I have always paid what creators demand...it's a requirement by CGC, and if you do not, you will be barred from the program...but not without making some (very polite, very professional) effort to explain the issue. Frequently, I've paid more, and most of the time, been thrilled to do it (see: Mark Texeira.) And, yes, I have put books back in the box that I had prepared for them to sign, and they got $0 for those books. Once these creators are gone, their body of SS copies is DONE. OVER. FINISHED. Ain't no more coming. I own the only copies of Showcase #83 and #84 signed by Bernie for SS. The only ones. There will never be another copy of those books in SS. You want one? Too bad. For all intents and purposes, they don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Well, you can always have them sign raw and have the other company "authenticate". Maybe you wear those glasses with a video recorder for further proof... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
