Do creators charge too much for signatures?
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Some do, other don't.

I am still baffled at why people would want marker/pen (even if written by the creator) on the book itself, especially a high grade mega key book like AF 15. Why not create a label/holder design that has an area for signatures.

It would still have a verified signature in a holder just not on the book physically.

I must be crazy or something (shrug)

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2 minutes ago, the blob said:

SS books typicly get a bit more, particularly if it is a tough signature to get. But for some folks maybe nobody cares. There are always exceptions. I am not opining on whether charging $50 extra for a SS book is justified or not in terms of adding value. The market will decide. But ultimately it is the person signing who decides their price in a given context. If their decision is irrational (3rd tier artist charging $100 for a SS book) the market is going to punish them. Let's face it, 20, 30 years ago many of these folks gave away free sketches or charged $5, now they want $150 or more because they see them getting sold. How many fans walked around with sketch books to get artists to doodle In? In 1995 the re-selling wasn't in your face on the internet.

If an artist is turning down offers for lower price signings on a larger volume of books, then they are doing just fine and have no need to negotiate down.  They are not concerned about 'lost business'.

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Just now, the blob said:

SS books typicly get a bit more, particularly if it is a tough signature to get. But for some folks maybe nobody cares. There are always exceptions. I am not opining on whether charging $50 extra for a SS book is justified or not in terms of adding value. The market will decide. But ultimately it is the person signing who decides their price in a given context. If their decision is irrational (3rd tier artist charging $100 for a SS book) the market is going to punish them. Let's face it, 20, 30 years ago many of these folks gave away free sketches or charged $5, now they want $150 or more because they see them getting sold. How many fans walked around with sketch books to get artists to doodle In? In 1995 the re-selling wasn't in your face on the internet.

With all due respect, I don't think you understand the SS market, or how and why signatures affect the value of books.

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Just now, grayzr said:

Some do, other don't.

I am still baffled at why people would want marker/pen (even if written by the creator) on the book itself, especially a high grade mega key book like AF 15. Why not create a label/holder design that has an area for signatures.

It would still have a verified signature in a holder just not on the book physically.

I must be crazy or something (shrug)

I'm with you 100%.  Any sig is writing defacing cover to me.

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6 minutes ago, grayzr said:

Some do, other don't.

I am still baffled at why people would want marker/pen (even if written by the creator) on the book itself, especially a high grade mega key book like AF 15. Why not create a label/holder design that has an area for signatures.

It would still have a verified signature in a holder just not on the book physically.

I must be crazy or something (shrug)

The short answer is because the individual copy is far removed from the creator. The creator had nothing to do with producing the copies of his or her work. They just created the original. What you hold in your hand is a copy of a copy of a copy of the original work. So, having a creator sign a specific copy...to touch that copy...makes that copy more special to some, because it is a direct connection to that specific copy of their work.

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What about when Stan Lee signs a superman comic tho.  Or anyone signing something they had nuthin to do with.

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Rma, with all due respect it is pretty easy to look at prices. And I agree that with many books and many artists the market just does not care And does not add value. And yeah, I agree, it is silly for Rob liefield to charge $30 to sign new mutants 93 or x-force 4 or whatever. But looking at sales, liefield/nicienza new mutant 98s in 9.8 sold for $1100-1300 in January and $100+ less without the sigs. New mutants 100 9.8 liefield/nicienza sold for $399.99 whereas non SS 9.8s are generally under $150 (although there was one weird one in the $200s). Maybe the $399 was a fluke. And yes, nicienza alone does nothing at all. I am not going to spend hours researching various books. Stan Lee seems to be adding a lot right now. Him charging more for SS seems to have been justified in terms of ROI. Anyway, you're right, it is not a market I care much about. I don't assign much of a premium when bidding, but it is going to depend. I could see myself paying more for a Miller dd 158 and some others. Maybe the right Sam kieth book. Cap 286.

Edited by the blob

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1 minute ago, the blob said:

Rma, with all due respect it is pretty easy to look at prices. And I agree that with many books and many artists the market just does not care And does not add value. And yeah, I agree, it is silly for Rob liefield to charge $30 to sign new mutants 93 or x-force 4 or whatever. But looking at sales, liefield/nicienza new mutant 98s in 9.8 sold for $1100-1300 in January and $100+ less without the sigs. New mutants 100 9.8 liefield/nicienza sold for $399.99 whereas non SS 9.8s are generally under $150 (although there was one weird one in the $200s). Maybe the $399 was a fluke. And yes, nicienza alone does nothing at all. I am not going to spend hours researching various books. Stan Lee seems to be adding a lot right now. Him charging more for SS seems to have been justified in terms of ROI. Anyway, you're right, it is not a market I care much about. I don't assign much of a premium when bidding, but it is going to depend.

I used to track sales just for kicks and there were plenty of high dollar books that sold for more in same grade than SS books.  There's definitely a substantial market that likes their books unblemished, with all due respect.

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9 minutes ago, kav said:

I used to track sales just for kicks and there were plenty of high dollar books that sold for more in same grade than SS books.  There's definitely a substantial market that likes their books unblemished, with all due respect.

If that is the case the market will let the talent know that their SS premium is stupid, no? But it's true I do see more wacky SS asking prices than sales. And that is perhaps what some artists are reacting to.

Edited by the blob

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1 minute ago, the blob said:

If that is the case the market will let the talent know that their SS premium is stupid, no?

Well there will still be people that want em, with all due respect.  But yeah, the market dictates everything.

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3 minutes ago, kav said:

Well there will still be people that want em, with all due respect.  But yeah, the market dictates everything.

With all due respect, did rma offer you one of his hoard of SS maxx ashcans to give me grief?

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17 minutes ago, kav said:
20 minutes ago, the blob said:

Rma, with all due respect it is pretty easy to look at prices. And I agree that with many books and many artists the market just does not care And does not add value. And yeah, I agree, it is silly for Rob liefield to charge $30 to sign new mutants 93 or x-force 4 or whatever. But looking at sales, liefield/nicienza new mutant 98s in 9.8 sold for $1100-1300 in January and $100+ less without the sigs. New mutants 100 9.8 liefield/nicienza sold for $399.99 whereas non SS 9.8s are generally under $150 (although there was one weird one in the $200s). Maybe the $399 was a fluke. And yes, nicienza alone does nothing at all. I am not going to spend hours researching various books. Stan Lee seems to be adding a lot right now. Him charging more for SS seems to have been justified in terms of ROI. Anyway, you're right, it is not a market I care much about. I don't assign much of a premium when bidding, but it is going to depend.

I used to track sales just for kicks and there were plenty of high dollar books that sold for more in same grade than SS books.  There's definitely a substantial market that likes their books unblemished, with all due respect.

It costs at least a $100 to pay to get those 2 sigs done... (shrug)

I'm not following the point, sounds like the seller was losing money...

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5 minutes ago, the blob said:

With all due respect, did rma offer you one of his hoard of SS maxx ashcans to give me grief?

:shy:

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6 minutes ago, the blob said:

 Anyway, you're right, it is not a market I care much about. 

Right. Folks who have nothing to do with the program have the strongest opinions about it...

No creator's CGC punishment tax is "justified" based on "ROI." SS books have value because of what they are, and what condition they're in. The creator takes zero risk in the transaction, and therefore deserves zero reward. THAT is Econ 101. If the creator wants to sign and submit his own copies, there is an existing CGC program by which creators get FREE/LOW COST submissions...lower than the average shlub gets...and then they can get an "ROI" of their own. They assume all the risk...they get all the reward. If a creator wants to say "hey! My signature adds value to your books!" I'll be happy to go over the numbers with him or her, and negotiate something fair for both of us...but that would involve the creator assuming SOME of the risk, and most creators wouldn't be interested. They just want the extra $$$ with none of the additional effort or risk.

Explain how that works....

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1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

It costs at least a $100 to pay to get those 2 sigs done... (shrug)

I'm not following the point, sounds like the seller was losing money...

In many cases that was indeed the result of getting a sig.  

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Just now, ADAMANTIUM said:

It costs at least a $100 to pay to get those 2 sigs done... (shrug)

I'm not following the point, sounds like the seller was losing money...

Nicienza should be charging $1. Liefield can justify a little more. Nowhere did I ever say what these guys are charging actually makes sense.

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2 minutes ago, the blob said:

Nicienza should be charging $1. Liefield can justify a little more. Nowhere did I ever say what these guys are charging actually makes sense.

My point is if the 9.8 sells only $100 more in 9.8 the seller is losing money because it costs $200 to get liefeldand the other guys Sig authenticated...

Edited by ADAMANTIUM

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Regardless of the actual situation and what creators may believe their sigs do for sales, they are free to charge whatever they want.  People are free to pay that, or not.  I dont see the problem.

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Just now, kav said:

Regardless of the actual situation and what creators may believe their sigs do for sales, they are free to charge whatever they want.  People are free to pay that, or not.  I dont see the problem.

My quibble is not about the artist charge...

They think the flippers are "making money" by your example the "seller" just lost $100 in the transaction

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