What do you do 1 1

[Justin Case]

I havent posted on here for a while due to family issues but now things are getting better i have decided to get back into the comic scene once again. I do have an issue which has i feel has not really been sorted to my satisfaction and i am at a loss as to what to do. Hopefully(or not as the case may be) someone has experienced this and it was resolved in a fair manner and a sensible solution was reached. Basically i had a Vampirella #1 which i gave to a dealer/board member who was sending other comics to CGC . We both had a look and i said i would give it a preliminary grade of 9.0 and he said 8.5 so basically we were in the same ballpark. When the magazine came back the dealer contacted me to come and collect it and when he handed it over and i saw the grade of 7.5 i was quite shocked. I have submitted loads of books to CGC and have never been that far out with my estimated grade so i examined it immediately thinking maybe i forgot to look at the back. Could not find anything obvious so i turned to the front and saw a very noticeable chip in the top right hand corner. I showed it to the dealer and asked if maybe he did it by accident but he swore that he does not take comics out of the mylar before sending them to CGC as there is no reason to and just sends them on. I did email Harshan and he basically said something like this could not have happened on the CGC premises without anybody knowing about it or something along those lines, i.e CGC are not responsible for what happened . Does anybody know what to do or have they had a similar experience. This feels like a real kick in the teeth.                  

[RockMyAmadeus]

The only question that matters: do you have pictures of before you sent it?

[romanheart]

If you want to be sure about the state of your books then I guess you should submit them yourself to be sure. Then it's between you, CGC, and the postman.

[Justin Case]

13 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The only question that matters: do you have pictures of before you sent it?

No

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, Justin Case said:

15 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The only question that matters: do you have pictures of before you sent it?

No

That's going to make your claim pretty much impossible, since you don't know when it happened, or by whom.

Sorry.

 

[Justin Case]

11 minutes ago, romanheart said:

If you want to be sure about the state of your books then I guess you should submit them yourself to be sure. Then it's between you, CGC, and the postman.

I trust the dealer who sent them in implicitly. The damage is like someone cut the corner off with a scalpel so not possible to be done by a postman

[Artboy99]

I had something similar happen through a friend. I sold him a copy of Batman Adventures 12, I was very certain the book was a 9.6 with potential to be a 9.8. I am a pretty decent grader: as an example I sent in 16 modern books and was exact on the grades on all but 2. The 2 I said one was a 9.4, the other a 9.6 when they came back they were 9.4 and 9.6 just reversed. The rest of the books were all the grades I said they would be between 9.4 and 9.8's. The point I am making is that I couldn't have been that off on the grade the Batman Adventures 12 received. My friend sent the book in and what he received back was a CGC 9.0 with obvious damage including several spine dings that were not on the book before. The problem: while I have a scan of the book from when I owned it my friend did not. He claims he didn't do anything to it but put the book into a comic box, he said he didn't even open it before he sent it in. It honestly didn't look at all like the book I had sold him, it looked different even the staple alignment seemed different from the scan I had.

[Real Elijah Snow]

It definitely could have happened at CGC. 

Here's my experience:

I've subbed probably 20,000+ books over the years. I've never had anything that I thought was damaged at CGC besides 1 isolated book, and one 25 book order. 

The single book was a Chew #1 that was perfect when I sent it in. I expected a 9.8 as my experience has dictated that expecting anything higher is foolish. (I've gotten exactly 2 9.9's over the thousands of books I've subbed and they were both the same book;Forever Evil #1 lenticular, and the sub was done onsite) The Chew #1 did get a 9.8, but upon examining it, it had 3-4 deep creases on the back cover that weren't there when it was subbed. No way on earth anyone would have given that book a 9.4 with those creases. To me it looked like what happens to books when they're in a not full box and bend over. My reasoning was that it happened after it was graded. It could have happened at some other point, but that's just my speculation. 

The second example still makes me a little sore to think about, but here are the details. I sent in a box with 3 separate 25 book orders. These were all high grade moderns, with the expectation that most would hit 9.8, with a few getting 9.6'd. I checked the grades. 2 of the 3 orders were in line with my expectations. 1 of the 3 orders was waaaaay lower. (I'm talking 6.0-9.0 nearly across the board) When the books came in I ripped into that box to examine the books. Every single one of them had varying impact damage to the lower left corner. I've handled enough books to know that these had obviously been dropped on their corners while the stack was kept together in the bigger bag I put separate orders in, and depending how close they were to the edge of the bag/board, the damage went from major corner crunch to a few stress lines. 

I called CGC to discuss the situation. My reasoning was that with the 3 orders in the same box, and one taking a major hit, the order had to have been dropped after it was received. Otherwise the other 2 orders would have sustained some level of damage, but they had not. Keep in mind that every order I've ever sent in has been beyond well protected. I've had exactly zero damaged orders before or since. Explaining my reasoning got me a small amount of sympathy, but no accountability. They offered to press/regrade. The books came back with about 1/2 being 9.6/9.8 with the other half in that nearly unsellable 8.5-9.2 modern slab range. They were very nice about the whole thing, but no matter how many times I reiterated my logic, I couldn't get them to admit that the order had to have been dropped after it was received. I probably lost around a thousand dollars on the ordeal when all was said and done considering what 9.8's vs 9.0's sell for on certain moderns. Maybe more. I tried not to dwell on it, and haven't had a problem since. 

I probably wouldn't even mention this order that was dropped if they had done what they did after while also admitting that logically it was obvious what had happened. It was beyond frustrating explaining the circumstance, and getting the response of "Yeah, we didn't do it".  If they didn't do it, then somehow during shipping to CGC ,through some Sith magic, the double boxed and padded package of three orders was penetrated, one order was all corner crunched, and the other 2 orders were left completely unscathed. Amazing.  I love the service and it's been a major factor of my business for a decade and a half. I haven't had a problem since, and don't expect any. Humans make errors though. I get that. That's what happened there, and I'll never be convinced otherwise. 

[LordRahl]

12 minutes ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

It definitely could have happened at CGC. 

Here's my experience:

I've subbed probably 20,000+ books over the years. I've never had anything that I thought was damaged at CGC besides 1 isolated book, and one 25 book order. 

The single book was a Chew #1 that was perfect when I sent it in. I expected a 9.8 as my experience has dictated that expecting anything higher is foolish. (I've gotten exactly 2 9.9's over the thousands of books I've subbed and they were both the same book;Forever Evil #1 lenticular, and the sub was done onsite) The Chew #1 did get a 9.8, but upon examining it, it had 3-4 deep creases on the back cover that weren't there when it was subbed. No way on earth anyone would have given that book a 9.4 with those creases. To me it looked like what happens to books when they're in a not full box and bend over. My reasoning was that it happened after it was graded. It could have happened at some other point, but that's just my speculation. 

The second example still makes me a little sore to think about, but here are the details. I sent in a box with 3 separate 25 book orders. These were all high grade moderns, with the expectation that most would hit 9.8, with a few getting 9.6'd. I checked the grades. 2 of the 3 orders were in line with my expectations. 1 of the 3 orders was waaaaay lower. (I'm talking 6.0-9.0 nearly across the board) When the books came in I ripped into that box to examine the books. Every single one of them had varying impact damage to the lower left corner. I've handled enough books to know that these had obviously been dropped on their corners while the stack was kept together in the bigger bag I put separate orders in, and depending how close they were to the edge of the bag/board, the damage went from major corner crunch to a few stress lines. 

I called CGC to discuss the situation. My reasoning was that with the 3 orders in the same box, and one taking a major hit, the order had to have been dropped after it was received. Otherwise the other 2 orders would have sustained some level of damage, but they had not. Keep in mind that every order I've ever sent in has been beyond well protected. I've had exactly zero damaged orders before or since. Explaining my reasoning got me a small amount of sympathy, but no accountability. They offered to press/regrade. The books came back with about 1/2 being 9.6/9.8 with the other half in that nearly unsellable 8.5-9.2 modern slab range. They were very nice about the whole thing, but no matter how many times I reiterated my logic, I couldn't get them to admit that the order had to have been dropped after it was received. I probably lost around a thousand dollars on the ordeal when all was said and done considering what 9.8's vs 9.0's sell for on certain moderns. Maybe more. I tried not to dwell on it, and haven't had a problem since. 

I probably wouldn't even mention this order that was dropped if they had done what they did after while also admitting that logically it was obvious what had happened. It was beyond frustrating explaining the circumstance, and getting the response of "Yeah, we didn't do it".  If they didn't do it, then somehow during shipping to CGC ,through some Sith magic, the double boxed and padded package of three orders was penetrated, one order was all corner crunched, and the other 2 orders were left completely unscathed. Amazing.  I love the service and it's been a major factor of my business for a decade and a half. I haven't had a problem since, and don't expect any. Humans make errors though. I get that. That's what happened there, and I'll never be convinced otherwise. 

Sorry that happened. I feel your pain. I had basically the exact same thing happen with a sub to Voldy except it wasn't moderns but bronze/silver and the corner crunches on my books cost me upwards of $5K. Voldy did the same thing... "we didn't do it, no way it happened here". Here's my problem with your situation and mine as well. Why did CGC/Voldy even slab the books? Obviously damaged. Call and tell me that the books were damaged in shipping (even if that's a lie), do you still want them slabbed? In your case, I'm sure you would have said no. In my case as well. So they not only damaged them but then compounded the problem by slabbing and charging you when the books were no longer slab worthy. 

As for the OP... no pictures, it passed through a dealer as well in between him and CGC, no way they take the liability on that one. Understandably so. 

[Justin Case]

1 hour ago, LordRahl said:

Sorry that happened. I feel your pain. I had basically the exact same thing happen with a sub to Voldy except it wasn't moderns but bronze/silver and the corner crunches on my books cost me upwards of $5K. Voldy did the same thing... "we didn't do it, no way it happened here". Here's my problem with your situation and mine as well. Why did CGC/Voldy even slab the books? Obviously damaged. Call and tell me that the books were damaged in shipping (even if that's a lie), do you still want them slabbed? In your case, I'm sure you would have said no. In my case as well. So they not only damaged them but then compounded the problem by slabbing and charging you when the books were no longer slab worthy. 

As for the OP... no pictures, it passed through a dealer as well in between him and CGC, no way they take the liability on that one. Understandably so. 

The problem is that is the sort of response i got "we didn't do it, no way it happened here" which i think would still have been the same sort of response if i had sent it in directly. I doubt they could grade thousands upon thousands if not millions(not sure how many books CGC have graded so far) and not cause any damage to any books they are only human after all. Accidents will happen and i can accept that, its just the denial that bothers me.             

[Karl Liebl]

Great points.  I don't need 20000 slabs but I tell what...  I am going to take photos before sending them in from now on!

[kav]

4 minutes ago, Justin Case said:

The problem is that is the sort of response i got "we didn't do it, no way it happened here" which i think would still have been the same sort of response if i had sent it in directly. I doubt they could grade thousands upon thousands if not millions(not sure how many books CGC have graded so far) and not cause any damage to any books they are only human after all. Accidents will happen and i can accept that, its just the denial that bothers me.             

I have had a chip fall off a book without even touching it I can see how this could happen and no one even see it possibly there's no denial going on.

[Badger]

3 hours ago, kav said:

I have had a chip fall off a book without even touching it I can see how this could happen and no one even see it possibly there's no denial going on.

I know I've that happen to me at least once.

[Stillirize85]

LMFAO SOME OF YOU GUYS ARE people_without_enough_empathy

Edited February 28, 2019 by Stillirize85

[Real Elijah Snow]

1 hour ago, Stillirize85 said:

LMFAO SOME OF YOU GUYS ARE people_without_enough_empathy

Who/why? 

[Aweandlorder]

I flip houses and comics for a living

[lizards2]

40 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

I flip houses and comics for a living

AKA Earthquake!

[Justin Case]

 

13 hours ago, kav said:

I have had a chip fall off a book without even touching it I can see how this could happen and no one even see it possibly there's no denial going on.

Maybe the word 'chip' that i used was incorrect as its giving a false impression. Probably should have used the word 'section' as that is more accurate so i will try and describe it like this. If you were to go to the top right hand corner and mark 2 dots say 8mm horizontally and 8mm vertically and then join those 2 dots up you would end up with a triangle and that is what i have missing. There wasnt a very deep crease there so that the corner was hanging on by a thread no the cover overall was solid. The fact that it was graded 7.5 with this piece missing should kind of tell you that it was a high grade copy to start with. I showed it to some friends who said they have never seen that before and were of the opinion that something sharp has sliced through the cover.

As for the denial part its the "we didn't do it, no way it happened here" part that im referring to. Are you telling me CGC have NEVER EVER damaged a book in their possession. Im sorry but i find that extremely hard to believe.  

[shadroch]

If you honestly think they screwed up, file an insurance claim.

[lizards2]

2 hours ago, Justin Case said:

 

. Are you telling me CGC have NEVER EVER damaged a book in their possession. Im sorry but i find that extremely hard to believe.  

Whattya mean - they have three graders checking each other's work...,