The current state of the comic book market 0

[SBRobin]

8 hours ago, RonS2112 said:

A comic-con at a local DC Metro area college just last month had a line around the block of people waiting to get in.  This for a small con of primarily just comics -- not a San Diego or Baltimore-type event.  This hobby ain't going anywhere.

That's great for the con, but where are those people when the weekly books come out? Where are those people when your LCS is trying to sell back issues? Because they sure aren't buying them. The monthly Comichron reports prove that. 

[dupont2005]

23 minutes ago, SBRobin said:

I was planning to take my six year old niece to my LCS on free comic book day and get her a few of the kid offerings. Not sure if they are truly appropriate for kids now, but I figure if not, I can always get her some Disney stuff like DuckTales. 

There are actually a lot of kid friendly graphic novels but most of them are better found at the bookstore than the LCS. Monthly super hero floppies not really for kids anymore. I mean every parent is different but if you buy your kid ASM or Detective you might see some full frontal nudity  these days

[dupont2005]

Boy, I remember being in the LCS when a GIRL walked in once, the instant silence that fell upon the store just made me want to get the hell out of there. Can’t imagine how it made the girl feel. 

[miraclemet]

8 hours ago, RonS2112 said:

A comic-con at a local DC Metro area college just last month had a line around the block of people waiting to get in.  This for a small con of primarily just comics -- not a San Diego or Baltimore-type event.  This hobby ain't going anywhere.

which con was this ?!?!? im in DC metro! What did I miss?

[Old_Man_Adam]

2 hours ago, dupont2005 said:

Premier night comic givaways at comic book movies. DVD's coming with a comic. Or a coupon for a digital download. Hell, download coupons in Happy Meals and in that Spider-Man game that sold 9 million copies, why not? Kids still play with toys right? Minicomics and downloads in those things too. I remember my Pizza Hut X-Men comics and TMNT VHS tapes.


Right on - a lot of marketing but maybe not in the right places ? I’d say package comics with blu rays ( like avengers 1) but who buys blu rays anymore? We live in a world where toys r us went out of business and I used to get comics there , child world , Kay bee ... but I digress 

I also purchase variants from time to time - but it’s for the art or at least that’s what I tell myself - I guess we all secretly would love to acquire the next wolverine nabisco variant ...

[justafan]

55 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

which con was this ?!?!? im in DC metro! What did I miss?

dang same here

[RonS2112]

10 hours ago, SBRobin said:

That's great for the con, but where are those people when the weekly books come out? Where are those people when your LCS is trying to sell back issues? Because they sure aren't buying them. The monthly Comichron reports prove that. 

Well, now we’re painting with a pretty broad brush here, aren’t we?

 

First, I don’t think Comichron tracks secondary market sales.  Second, I’d have a hard time believing that anyone who goes to a Con to buy back issues DOESNT buy them outside of cons.  If the LCS doesn’t provide that service as well, then customers will go elsewhere.

[RonS2112]

8 hours ago, justafan said:

dang same here

It was the VA Comicon at GMU in Jan.

 

if you guys are in NoVA, I highly recommend you look up Shoff Productions on FB.  He hosts a monthly Con, usually just comics and cards, in Annandale, Tyson’s Corner, and Frederick.  The selection is great — all local dealers, ready to deal.  My silver and bronze-age collection is swelling with books I’ve picked up at 30-50% Overstreet.  Awesome selection of Golden Age and 59s material as well.

[1Cool]

12 hours ago, SBRobin said:

That's great for the con, but where are those people when the weekly books come out? Where are those people when your LCS is trying to sell back issues? Because they sure aren't buying them. The monthly Comichron reports prove that. 

Who cares how many people stand in line at a comic con?  How many of them leave holding a bag with comics in it?  People go to Cons for various reasons (ie do something when its cold outside) but the vast majority of the people will leave without a comic in a bag.  The attendance at Cons is definitely not a good gauge of the comic market.

[justafan]

1 hour ago, RonS2112 said:

Perhaps start by going back to the business model where one could get all their comics by going to their local 7-11 each week, rather than having to seek out a specialty store.  LCSs are great, and I support mine, but I'd bet the average potential reader doesn't even know where their nearest LCS is.

I used to think that was the solution but casual encounters with comics just don't happen like they used to.   Besides, the publishers hate that model.  Not doomsday if shops start closing but the market will contract to demand sustainable levels where speculation and investment on new/current titles has dried up and only the core monthly new issue reading customers are left which will be aging 30 year olds.  From there the market will slowly diminish as lack of new customers enter and older customers phase out over the next 20 years. 

The question is, at what point does Disney/Marvel or any of the other publishers just pull the plug on monthly print?  I mean if Disney streaming takes off and becomes the standard (more reliable) vehicle for getting it's characters and thus it's licensed merchandise marketed in front of kids, and print has declined to barely profitable levels, how much longer would they try to sustain it?  Most companies operate some divisions at a loss strictly due to their impact from a marketing/publicity advantage.  But if comics no longer serve as the primary vehicle for introducing and marketing characters/stories/toys/shows/movies, then why bother?

I wonder what would be the minimum order numbers for a title in consecutive weeks before they think about killing it off?  What would be the minimum orders across the board before deciding to cancel all titles?

Would it be 20,000?  10,000?  Jeez.  I mean I think the lowest order numbers I've ever seen on a flagship title like ASM was in the high 40,000's according to comichron for 2-3 months in a row but movies and variants always tend to create a spike or boost which quickly fall 6 months after a movie is released. 

[Joosh]

13 hours ago, justafan said:

dang same here

Was it the Great Lakes Comic Con in late Feb at Mocomb Community College? I came in early with repurchased tickets both days so I missed the long lines.

I saw a lot of ppl with actual comic books in hand as well as a lot of elbow to elbow $.50,$1,$5 bin shopping, especially Saturday. It got as crowded as ever.

Comics need to get back to being a convenient purchase. Alterna Comics has(had?) a newsstand model in 2017/2018 with newsprint books at $1.50ea. If they could’ve made a regular presence at grocery and convenience stores it could’ve conceivably brought cheap comics back to the places the general population frequents. From what I read, that was the plan, but I only ever found them at large bookstores with massive newsstands or at LCS in direct format.

As a parent I can easily see myself picking up a couple $1.50 comics at the checkout of the grocery store just to give the kids a cheap little something. That easy inexpensive gesture is the kind of thing that can get a kid wanting the next issue.

[the blob]

1 minute ago, Joosh said:

Was it the Great Lakes Comic Con in late Feb at Mocomb Community College? I came in early with repurchased tickets both days so I missed the long lines.

I saw a lot of ppl with actual comic books in hand as well as a lot of elbow to elbow $.50,$1,$5 bin shopping, especially Saturday. It got as crowded as ever.

Comics need to get back to being a convenient purchase. Alterna Comics has(had?) a newsstand model in 2017/2018 with newsprint books at $1.50ea. If they could’ve made a regular presence at grocery and convenience stores it could’ve conceivably brought cheap comics back to the places the general population frequents. From what I read, that was the plan, but I only ever found them at large bookstores with massive newsstands or at LCS in direct format.

As a parent I can easily see myself picking up a couple $1.50 comics at the checkout of the grocery store just to give the kids a cheap little something. That easy inexpensive gesture is the kind of thing that can get a kid wanting the next issue.

But you are likely not doing it for some unknown character from a new company. And if you are willing the vast majority of parents of younger readers won't.

[the blob]

On 3/4/2019 at 3:24 PM, ComicConnoisseur said:

Actually the younger generation of today most likely reads way more than the younger generations of the 1950s to 1990s ever did. When you are on the internet you are reading and interacting with people continuously, that`s a leap up in reading by volume compared to past generations who sat around and were mesmired by those 12-19 inch TVs which ruled the family living rooms from those eras.

 

 

 

do you have any evidence of this? Just because you don't know what kids read back then doesn't mean they were not reading. People made a living cranking out cheap paperbacks read by the masses. Kids read the hardy boys and other kid stuff too. Being on the internet often involves little reading. Kids watch videos and play games. This is not to say there is not a population of avid readers now, but I suspect it is a smaller % than you think. Sure, the kids I know read the heck out of Harry potter, etc, but all their parents are college graduates. That is not America.

[the blob]

On 3/4/2019 at 10:38 AM, Aweandlorder said:

Try and get your 14 year old away from Fortnite to read a comic book see how far that gets ya

Mine reads comics, though he prefers GNs and tpbs because he wants to get the whole story arc. He has no interest in waiting a month. He plays too much fortnight. He also loves all the comic tv shows. He watches them while  playing fortnight. But that is anecdotal, I know. But it is telling and shows how the current way of selling story arcs has zero appeal. Heck, you binge watch a whole series in a week now. Nobody has patience for a story arc played out over months and multiple titles.

Edited March 6, 2019 by the blob

[justafan]

4 hours ago, RonS2112 said:

It was the VA Comicon at GMU in Jan.

 

if you guys are in NoVA, I highly recommend you look up Shoff Productions on FB.  He hosts a monthly Con, usually just comics and cards, in Annandale, Tyson’s Corner, and Frederick.  The selection is great — all local dealers, ready to deal.  My silver and bronze-age collection is swelling with books I’ve picked up at 30-50% Overstreet.  Awesome selection of Golden Age and 59s material as well.

DANG!  I love going to the VA Comicon but usually it's in Richmond which is a hike for me.  I can't believe I missed that one in GMU which is much closer.  Aw crud.  I know of the Schoff promotion shows.  $1 admission if you bring the ad.  They are pretty classic hotel conference room style shows.  low key and friendly but I already shop with most of those dealers so often that I need to take a break every 6 months to allow for new stock to come in or else I'm just digging through the same old stuff.  I see many of those guys already 3 times a year at AwesomeCon, Baltimore ComicCon, and VAComicon whenever I actually make it and sometimes even at Heroes con.  I'm down to just those shows.  No more long distance shows for me.  I can pretty much get all I need from HeroesCon and Baltimore.  NYCC was better than SDCC since I got to see more Canadian dealers than I ever had before and snagged some decent Canadian price variants and late 2000's newsstands.

I digress.  As mentioned before, comic/gaming/toys pop culture and back issues are not in danger yet.  It's the new fresh off the press comics we're concerned about here.  Though somewhat related, I have caught on to the benefits of waiting 6 months to buy my moderns at a show where they are in dollar bins or on recent back issue shelves and able to cherry pick 9.8's.  This strategy is also negatively impacting retailers but it's what I have to resort to since my LCS is no longer cherry picking/guaranteeing pristine copies for me and has even begun missing/skipping issue numbers for my pull box.  After that started happening I cut my subs down to 1 title and they are still having issues with that.  Hate doing it but also when an LCS's entire order comes dinged or has ugly color rub/ink streaks and can't guarantee a reorder, I have to suck it up as well.  Diamond or Publishers should be either replacing the order for LCS for free or reimbursing them for the loss.  I'm about ready to cancel sub orders with them and just go 100% dollar bin modern hunting at this point.

[RonS2112]

1 hour ago, justafan said:

DANG!  I love going to the VA Comicon but usually it's in Richmond which is a hike for me.  I can't believe I missed that one in GMU which is much closer.  Aw crud.  I know of the Schoff promotion shows.  $1 admission if you bring the ad.  They are pretty classic hotel conference room style shows.  low key and friendly but I already shop with most of those dealers so often that I need to take a break every 6 months to allow for new stock to come in or else I'm just digging through the same old stuff.  I see many of those guys already 3 times a year at AwesomeCon, Baltimore ComicCon, and VAComicon whenever I actually make it and sometimes even at Heroes con.  I'm down to just those shows.  No more long distance shows for me.  I can pretty much get all I need from HeroesCon and Baltimore.  NYCC was better than SDCC since I got to see more Canadian dealers than I ever had before and snagged some decent Canadian price variants and late 2000's newsstands.

I digress.  As mentioned before, comic/gaming/toys pop culture and back issues are not in danger yet.  It's the new fresh off the press comics we're concerned about here.  Though somewhat related, I have caught on to the benefits of waiting 6 months to buy my moderns at a show where they are in dollar bins or on recent back issue shelves and able to cherry pick 9.8's.  This strategy is also negatively impacting retailers but it's what I have to resort to since my LCS is no longer cherry picking/guaranteeing pristine copies for me and has even begun missing/skipping issue numbers for my pull box.  After that started happening I cut my subs down to 1 title and they are still having issues with that.  Hate doing it but also when an LCS's entire order comes dinged or has ugly color rub/ink streaks and can't guarantee a reorder, I have to suck it up as well.  Diamond or Publishers should be either replacing the order for LCS for free or reimbursing them for the loss.  I'm about ready to cancel sub orders with them and just go 100% dollar bin modern hunting at this point.

Yeah.....I could see that, although there was about a 50% difference in the Dec and Jan Shoff shows in terms of the dealers present.  The name is escaping me now, but the gentleman (probably early 70s) who sets up in the back corner of the Annandale firehouse has a collection of 50's DCs and Atlas books that brings a tear to my eye.  And there was another dealer there with a beautiful early run (like the first 60 issues) of "Creepy" magazines.  Such great stuff.

But yes, the GMU show was REALLY well-attended.  And a pretty decent mix of comics/pop-culture material too -- NOT the disappointment that the Dulles Expo Center show was in August.  Too many Funko-pops and not enough comic dealers willing to deal at that one for me.  Although my kids loved it. 

But given the recent success of the NoVA shows, I think the GMU show is moving to AT LEAST twice a year now.

Edited March 6, 2019 by RonS2112

[RonS2112]

2 hours ago, the blob said:

do you have any evidence of this? Just because you don't know what kids read back then doesn't mean they were not reading. People made a living cranking out cheap paperbacks read by the masses. Kids read the hardy boys and other kid stuff too. Being on the internet often involves little reading. Kids watch videos and play games. This is not to say there is not a population of avid readers now, but I suspect it is a smaller % than you think. Sure, the kids I know read the heck out of Harry potter, etc, but all their parents are college graduates. That is not America.

How do you dipstick something like that, though?  Ok, I live in an affluent part of the country, but here, the release of certain books is a cultural phenomenon.  And the kids do a good job of cross-pollinating each-others' reading choices, so word of the popular stuff spreads pretty fast.  And I would assume, it's similar all around the country.  Contrary to what the alarmists will tell you, kids coming up today aren't an Army of screen-addicted zombies -- at least not totally.

[RonS2112]

2 hours ago, the blob said:

Mine reads comics, though he prefers GNs and tpbs because he wants to get the whole story arc. He has no interest in waiting a month. He plays too much fortnight. He also loves all the comic tv shows. He watches them while  playing fortnight. But that is anecdotal, I know. But it is telling and shows how the current way of selling story arcs has zero appeal. Heck, you binge watch a whole series in a week now. Nobody has patience for a story arc played out over months and multiple titles.

And there's nothing wrong with this.  There's a dealer here in the DC Metro area called Big Planet Comics, who deal almost exclusively in current issues and moreover, GNs and TPBs.  And the business model must be working for them, because they have four stores.  Not much in the back issue stock, at least not that they keep out in the front.  But if you're looking for any GN or TPB, that's the place to go around here.

[dupont2005]

4 hours ago, the blob said:

Mine reads comics, though he prefers GNs and tpbs because he wants to get the whole story arc. He has no interest in waiting a month. He plays too much fortnight. He also loves all the comic tv shows. He watches them while  playing fortnight. But that is anecdotal, I know. But it is telling and shows how the current way of selling story arcs has zero appeal. Heck, you binge watch a whole series in a week now. Nobody has patience for a story arc played out over months and multiple titles.

My girlfriends kid donates his old graphic novels to the classroom bookshelf and it’s made him really popular. His whole class love Bone and Usagi

[kidcolt]

I have collected since the 80’s, my main focus was Archie and Richie Rich digest. During the 90’s I started super hero and some other stuff. I never understood the variant chase or buying multiple copies or every #1 that comes out. Comics have always been about reading and admiring the artwork, I am also a sucker for a cool cover but only of what I like to read.

I remember 10-15 years ago and the comic industry was in trouble. Now with all the movies and shows driving prices the industry seems to be booming. To be clear I don’t buy modern books but I am still buying old back issue books especially first appearances and cool stories. Since the new price boom I barely buy anything, I have been priced out of collecting. I still follow what’s happening but haven’t bought a comic in years. Hopefully the boom dies and people start unloading all these horded books for low prices. Collectibles always seem to go in cycles, I can’t wait for the bottom to drop out.