The current state of the comic book market 0

[mrc]

1 hour ago, kidcolt said:

I remember 10-15 years ago and the comic industry was in trouble. Now with all the movies and shows driving prices the industry seems to be booming. To be clear I don’t buy modern books but I am still buying old back issue books especially first appearances and cool stories. Since the new price boom I barely buy anything, I have been priced out of collecting. I still follow what’s happening but haven’t bought a comic in years. Hopefully the boom dies and people start unloading all these horded books for low prices. Collectibles always seem to go in cycles, I can’t wait for the bottom to drop out. 

..........and this seems to sum up the current state of the comic book market.

[Aweandlorder]

3 hours ago, kidcolt said:

I have collected since the 80’s, my main focus was Archie and Richie Rich digest.

 

Comics have always been about reading and admiring the artwork

Edited March 7, 2019 by Aweandlorder

[the blob]

20 hours ago, RonS2112 said:

How do you dipstick something like that, though?  Ok, I live in an affluent part of the country, but here, the release of certain books is a cultural phenomenon.  And the kids do a good job of cross-pollinating each-others' reading choices, so word of the popular stuff spreads pretty fast.  And I would assume, it's similar all around the country.  Contrary to what the alarmists will tell you, kids coming up today aren't an Army of screen-addicted zombies -- at least not totally.

My son goes to a title I school. Over half the kids are in poverty or close to. (This is the weird irony of where I live... $1+ million homes across the street from 1 bedroom apartments housing 6 people supported by an uber driving father and whatever public assistance they can scrounge up.)  The new harry potter book is not an event for those kids even if it may be for the ones in the million dollar homes. There are a lot fewer of those kids. Do you think the 46% of the country (and their kids) who voted for a certain someone has books on their mind? Anyway, I can't seem to copy the link, but there was an article in Forbes about how youth reading rates have dropped since 1984. Not literacy rates.

Edited March 7, 2019 by the blob

[the blob]

On 3/1/2019 at 2:03 PM, Aweandlorder said:

I'm waiting for someone to say it and no one ever will

the state of the current publishing market relies on the secondary market. Period

that has been going on for decades but the differences now are:

up till early 00s printed matter reigned supreme

also up till early 00s comic book properties weren't a huge deal as they are now. 

The only reason why comic book publishers are around now is because of collectors. Not readers  

so the publishers will do anything in their power to feed that hunger and publish more "perceived low print" variants, push harder to option more properties.

where will the publishers be today without movies and variant?

nowehere  

 

On a macro level sure, but I don't think most of these books can survive without folks reading them. I Do think we got up to $3-5 cover prices because publishers wanted a piece of that collectability premium. The collectability of moderns is pretty inconsistent. Heck, most variants don't even have a window of flippability. If you have a pull of 20 books a month you spend $60-80 on you're lucky to walk away with $20-30 of collectible value. And a book like walking dead was built on people reading the stories, but maybe that's the exception. Although you have titles lime invincible or goon folks read as well where one or two issues were collectible. I know, I don't seem to have much to say about marvel or dc. Fables ran 130 issues.. People bought that to read it.

[F For Fake]

On 3/5/2019 at 7:53 PM, dupont2005 said:

Boy, I remember being in the LCS when a GIRL walked in once, the instant silence that fell upon the store just made me want to get the hell out of there. Can’t imagine how it made the girl feel. 

That's so sad and creepy. I'm glad I don't run into that scenario very often. We have several comic shops here, but the one I've always frequented is managed by a woman, and has at least three full time ladies on staff, which accounts for half of the current work force at that store. The ladies are very knowledgeable, they buy and read new comics, they write reviews for the local alternative weekly, etc.. I'm 42 and these 20-somethings know a hell of a lot more about modern comics than I do. I think it's great. I take my 10 year old niece to the store all of the time, and she never seems out of place or acts self conscious or weird. I guess this sort of thing is the exception rather than the rule (and I guess it makes sense that I don't encounter it that often, as I tend to avoid the stores packed with mouthbreathers stinking up the joint) but it's sad to think this gender disparity still exists in the hobby.

[the blob]

2 hours ago, F For Fake said:

That's so sad and creepy. I'm glad I don't run into that scenario very often. We have several comic shops here, but the one I've always frequented is managed by a woman, and has at least three full time ladies on staff, which accounts for half of the current work force at that store. The ladies are very knowledgeable, they buy and read new comics, they write reviews for the local alternative weekly, etc.. I'm 42 and these 20-somethings know a hell of a lot more about modern comics than I do. I think it's great. I take my 10 year old niece to the store all of the time, and she never seems out of place or acts self conscious or weird. I guess this sort of thing is the exception rather than the rule (and I guess it makes sense that I don't encounter it that often, as I tend to avoid the stores packed with mouthbreathers stinking up the joint) but it's sad to think this gender disparity still exists in the hobby.

Dorks freaking out when a woman walks in has certainly not been a feature of any of the comic shops I frequent. Sure, the substance of conversations may need to shift...perhaps abruptly, but my guess is that 10-20% of the folks walking in the door are women. One shop I used to go to was probably 50% (and a woman seemed to be the manager), but they were all about trades, GNs, and new stuff.

[dupont2005]

This was a hole in the wall shop where I’ve never seen more than 3-4 people in there, and usually none. He had back issues but they got shuffled further and further back until they were no longer accessible. I only ever saw one trade, an overpriced preowned annotated Sandman. There were well worn vintage sci-fi novels taking up too much real estate and probably overpriced, the rest was current releases, exclusively Marvel and DC except for Zenescope and Walking Dead

Edited March 7, 2019 by dupont2005

[Prince Namor]

Publishers could care less about the secondary market, or comic book store customers in general - that ISN'T who they sell to. They sell to comic book shops. Everything they do is geared toward selling to the shop. THAT is who their customer is. The variant is used to INCREASE the amount of copies a retailer buys. PERIOD. The 'perception' was created by the retailer as a way to sell it to the crack baby customers.

I talked to these publishers for years as a retailer and they all said the same thing - buy the new books we have here TODAY - not ONCE did they ever mention the secondary market as anything other than a distraction from buying their new books. Never once did they ever say, "And this variant will be worth x amount of money" and never once did they guarantee for a regular printing, only x amount of copies will be printed. 

Buy as many of THESE books, THIS week, and then move on to the next week.

The market still exists because collectors loved these characters as kids, and now have 'sequential numbering disorder' or 'every cover affliction'. That's how retailers have them reeled in. The publishers are going to publish regardless. They need to retain the property rights. If they can convince a retailer to buy more copies because of some silly J. Scoot Campbell variant cover, all the more money for the publisher. What happens after that is of no interest to them.

[MisterX]

I kind of think that Moderns are a loss leader for their corporate overlords. On the plus side for them, they have a relatively cheap creative incubator where comic book professionals (for various reasons, but mostly not to give up the rights to their own intellectual property) are dreaming up reskins of classic characters their employers already own the rights to into all sorts of media-friendly, brand-new yet familair money-making entities. 

If Disney can sell tons of licensed Spider-Gwen hoodies, or Warner Brothers can sell licensed Crush pajamas, do they really care if they're losing a few bucks or fanboys over a nearly extinct form of selling content? 

[the blob]

17 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Publishers could care less about the secondary market, or comic book store customers in general - that ISN'T who they sell to. They sell to comic book shops. Everything they do is geared toward selling to the shop. THAT is who their customer is. The variant is used to INCREASE the amount of copies a retailer buys. PERIOD. The 'perception' was created by the retailer as a way to sell it to the crack baby customers.

I talked to these publishers for years as a retailer and they all said the same thing - buy the new books we have here TODAY - not ONCE did they ever mention the secondary market as anything other than a distraction from buying their new books. Never once did they ever say, "And this variant will be worth x amount of money" and never once did they guarantee for a regular printing, only x amount of copies will be printed. 

Buy as many of THESE books, THIS week, and then move on to the next week.

The market still exists because collectors loved these characters as kids, and now have 'sequential numbering disorder' or 'every cover affliction'. That's how retailers have them reeled in. The publishers are going to publish regardless. They need to retain the property rights. If they can convince a retailer to buy more copies because of some silly J. Scoot Campbell variant cover, all the more money for the publisher. What happens after that is of no interest to them.

Yeah, but at the end of the day can they really continue to stay in this business if, let's say, half the end buyers (folks who read these diligently) drop out and you're left wit the sequential numbering disorder folks/variant collectors/bottom feeders like me who may buy out of a dollar box.

[grebal]

4 hours ago, MisterX said:

I kind of think that Moderns are a loss leader for their corporate overlords. On the plus side for them, they have a relatively cheap creative incubator where comic book professionals (for various reasons, but mostly not to give up the rights to their own intellectual property) are dreaming up reskins of classic characters their employers already own the rights to into all sorts of media-friendly, brand-new yet familair money-making entities. 

If Disney can sell tons of licensed Spider-Gwen hoodies, or Warner Brothers can sell licensed Crush pajamas, do they really care if they're losing a few bucks or fanboys over a nearly extinct form of selling content? 

I figured the same thing; that Marvel would be satisfied with break-even or modest losses from their comics division.  Based on absolutely no data whatsoever, I'd guess one middle of pack MCU movie makes more than annual profits from new material for Marvel (maybe one hit for DC).  And (pretending I'm a suit) it seems useful that they keep churning out new stuff of any quality to keep the brands 'alive' (if not to avoid being Shazammed with a stale trademark), again based on no evidence, heh, which means my guess is just a guess.

Edited March 8, 2019 by grebal

[dupont2005]

If the IP stops making money for them in comics I imagine they’d license it out for more money 

[Prince Namor]

6 hours ago, the blob said:

Yeah, but at the end of the day can they really continue to stay in this business if, let's say, half the end buyers (folks who read these diligently) drop out and you're left wit the sequential numbering disorder folks/variant collectors/bottom feeders like me who may buy out of a dollar box.

Marvel will continue to create comics regardless, just to keep the properties alive. In other media they're goldmines.

Remember - we don't see what they sell to the rest of the world. We don't see what they specifically sell to Book Stores. We don't have any idea what the digital numbers are. And we don't know the growth of Marvel online. There's a reason for that.

[dupont2005]

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Marvel will continue to create comics regardless, just to keep the properties alive. In other media they're goldmines.

Remember - we don't see what they sell to the rest of the world. We don't see what they specifically sell to Book Stores. We don't have any idea what the digital numbers are. And we don't know the growth of Marvel online. There's a reason for that.

They can do all that without direct market floppies though 

[FoggyNelson]

On 3/4/2019 at 3:17 PM, ComicConnoisseur said:

This Spider-Man game just sold 9 million copies. This is how the new generation discovers Marvel. Marvel has found new ways to get a bigger audience than the limited old antiquated  LCS model.

Spider-Man PS4 Has Sold Over 9 Million Copies

https://screenrant.com/spider-man-ps4-9-million-copies-sold/

After four months of being out, Marvel's Spider-Man on PlayStation 4 has sold over 9 million copies..

Nine million copies sold is by no means an easy milestone to hit, but given the popularity of the game, it doesn't seem all that surprising. Since November 25th, Spider-Man has been nominated for several awards, including Game of the Year, at this year's Game Awards, which likely got even more people to purchase the game. Insomniac Games no doubt had a hit with Spider-Man, and it is incredibly likely that they will continue to sell more copies for the next few years.

Thanks for all the good info comic connideur in this thred🆒🆒👍‼️

 

[Black_Adam]

Haven't read Immortal Hulk (I don't buy moderns). I hear it's a good series. But when I see copies of Avengers 684 selling for more than $200 less than a year after it hit stores I can't help wondering. The comic isn't rare (nearly 200 copies in 9.8 and I'm guessing a ton of raws in similar condition). Is there a movie coming or something?

I know it's been said many, many times before but when I see stuff like this I get total deja vu for the card collecting craze of the 1990s when people were emptying their wallets for fresh-off-the-press Jose Canseco rookie cards while basically ignoring vintage Mickey Mantles right beside them. And it isn't just the modern market where things have gone crazy.

I've been collecting comics for more than 40 years and have rarely had a comment from friends (other than asking "do you still have all those comics?" or cursing the stack of long boxes in my closet when they've had to help me move). Now, those same friends are asking if they can come to the comic show and scouring GoCollect, trying to figure out which comics will make them rich the quickest.

That, more than anything, makes me think the end is near...

 

[dupont2005]

The only thing anyone ever asks me about my comics is how much they’re worth. I tell them they’re mostly completely worthless 

[the blob]

3 hours ago, Black_Adam said:

Haven't read Immortal Hulk (I don't buy moderns). I hear it's a good series. But when I see copies of Avengers 684 selling for more than $200 less than a year after it hit stores I can't help wondering. The comic isn't rare (nearly 200 copies in 9.8 and I'm guessing a ton of raws in similar condition). Is there a movie coming or something?

I know it's been said many, many times before but when I see stuff like this I get total deja vu for the card collecting craze of the 1990s when people were emptying their wallets for fresh-off-the-press Jose Canseco rookie cards while basically ignoring vintage Mickey Mantles right beside them. And it isn't just the modern market where things have gone crazy.

I've been collecting comics for more than 40 years and have rarely had a comment from friends (other than asking "do you still have all those comics?" or cursing the stack of long boxes in my closet when they've had to help me move). Now, those same friends are asking if they can come to the comic show and scouring GoCollect, trying to figure out which comics will make them rich the quickest.

That, more than anything, makes me think the end is near...

 

Nobody was ignoring Mickey mantle. Those were the most sought after cards.

[Black_Adam]

15 minutes ago, the blob said:

Nobody was ignoring Mickey mantle. Those were the most sought after cards.

Not at the shows/stores I was going to in the 1990s (and this is Canada where hockey cards are king - maybe it was different in the USA). Everyone wanted the new Fleer/Donruss/Upper Deck while the old stuff sat mainly neglected. I had a few friends who had the wisdom to grab an old Duke Snider, Tom Seaver or Stan Musial (the Mantles were too expensive) and they are laughing now at the friends still sitting on unopened boxes of Score baseball. 

[the blob]

2 hours ago, Black_Adam said:

Not at the shows/stores I was going to in the 1990s (and this is Canada where hockey cards are king - maybe it was different in the USA). Everyone wanted the new Fleer/Donruss/Upper Deck while the old stuff sat mainly neglected. I had a few friends who had the wisdom to grab an old Duke Snider, Tom Seaver or Stan Musial (the Mantles were too expensive) and they are laughing now at the friends still sitting on unopened boxes of Score baseball. 

Those guys were expensive here. Honestly I am not sure the prices ever really recovered after the crash except for really high grade stuff. There were guys quiting white collar jobs to be card dealers. Yes, some of the new stuff was overvalued, vastly.