The current state of the comic book market 0

[Black_Adam]

2 minutes ago, the blob said:

Those guys were expensive here. Honestly I am not sure the prices ever really recovered after the crash except for really high grade stuff. There were guys quiting white collar jobs to be card dealers. Yes, some of the new stuff was overvalued, vastly. 

See what I mean? With the current comic market it's like deja vu all over again! 

[the blob]

Just now, Black_Adam said:

See what I mean? With the current comic market it's like deja vu all over again! 

It was particularly overvalued because there were so many of them. There was also no internet then. Prices were distorted because folks were limited to local shops, shows, and some mail order. Now we have a real international market for this stuff with hundreds of thousands of sellers. X-men 221, for example, sells for $25 or whatever because that's the price that the market is paying, not distorted by local monopolies or any of that. Obviously a few expensive books may be skilled up in bidding, but the typical book sells for what the market thinks it's worth.

[justafan]

12 hours ago, Black_Adam said:

Haven't read Immortal Hulk (I don't buy moderns). I hear it's a good series. But when I see copies of Avengers 684 selling for more than $200 less than a year after it hit stores I can't help wondering. The comic isn't rare (nearly 200 copies in 9.8 and I'm guessing a ton of raws in similar condition). Is there a movie coming or something?

I know it's been said many, many times before but when I see stuff like this I get total deja vu for the card collecting craze of the 1990s when people were emptying their wallets for fresh-off-the-press Jose Canseco rookie cards while basically ignoring vintage Mickey Mantles right beside them. And it isn't just the modern market where things have gone crazy.

I've been collecting comics for more than 40 years and have rarely had a comment from friends (other than asking "do you still have all those comics?" or cursing the stack of long boxes in my closet when they've had to help me move). Now, those same friends are asking if they can come to the comic show and scouring GoCollect, trying to figure out which comics will make them rich the quickest.

That, more than anything, makes me think the end is near...

 

I recall those card collecting days but I remember it differently. I wasn't ignoring the vintage Mickey Mantles, or Roger Maris or Nolan Ryan rookie cards.  I wanted them sooo badly. I just couldn't afford to buy them at 50k, 20k, or even 5k and nor could my father.  What we could afford was that $50-200 specialty card or other more modern rookies.  I didn't chase the specialty cards but it didn't stop my dad from overpaying for a Ricky Henderson rookie card for my birthday because he was one of my favorite players at the time. 

I think that's why the demand for those modern comics backissues exist. most new collectors can't afford the GA or SA comics they really want but they still want to get into the game because they feel they missed out or were born in the wrong decade. so they pay for and chase what they can afford and get a high when they make a good buy, snag a deal or flip and like a junkie look to keep doing so. 

A $200 modern may not seem great compared to a key SA book but it's price sure is compared to a 2nd mortgage for the SA copy.

[Black_Adam]

15 minutes ago, justafan said:

I recall those card collecting days but I remember it differently. I wasn't ignoring the vintage Mickey Mantles, or Roger Maris or Nolan Ryan rookie cards.  I wanted them sooo badly. I just couldn't afford to buy them at 50k, 20k, or even 5k and nor could my father.  What we could afford was that $50-200 specialty card or other more modern rookies.  I didn't chase the specialty cards but it didn't stop my dad from overpaying for a Ricky Henderson rookie card for my birthday because he was one of my favorite players at the time. 

I think that's why the demand for those modern comics backissues exist. most new collectors can't afford the GA or SA comics they really want but they still want to get into the game because they feel they missed out or were born in the wrong decade. so they pay for and chase what they can afford and get a high when they make a good buy, snag a deal or flip and like a junkie look to keep doing so. 

A $200 modern may not seem great compared to a key SA book but it's price sure is compared to a 2nd mortgage for the SA copy.

I think some modern collectors might be surprised what $200 will get them when it comes to the Silver Age. I just bought a CGC 9.4 Fantastic Four Annual #7 with White pages - a fifty year old comic - for $100 on the boards For Sale thread yesterday.

Keys always command a premium but there is a ton of great secondary stuff available at very, very affordable prices, and I honestly believe in 30 years time many of them will be far more desirable than any of the stuff being printed today.

[justafan]

1 hour ago, Black_Adam said:

I think some modern collectors might be surprised what $200 will get them when it comes to the Silver Age. I just bought a CGC 9.4 Fantastic Four Annual #7 with White pages - a fifty year old comic - for $100 on the boards For Sale thread yesterday.

Keys always command a premium but there is a ton of great secondary stuff available at very, very affordable prices, and I honestly believe in 30 years time many of them will be far more desirable than any of the stuff being printed today.

That may be but what makes that FF annual special to the modern Avengers/Immortal Hulk collector or any collector whose focus is not SA FF? You and I know why it is special. The reason that FF annual in 9.4 is only $100 is because most modern collectors can't or won't take the time to distinguish the difference between it and any other non-key SA comic in 9.4 of which there are hundreds.  If they did then it would no longer be a $100 comic due sudden demand.  They know it's old.  They know it's well into the FF run to make it not really a key book.  Unless they read the label they may not know that it has art by Kirby (if they even know who that is), tells the origin of Dr Doom, and actually retells the stories from issues #1 and Annual#2 which would be cheap entry points to the SA FF.  However, most modern collectors won't know this unless someone shoves one in front of them and tells them about it.    However, if they go to a booth and see the Avengers book in 9.8 they do know about at $200 on the dealer wall and about 10 books further down is the FF Annual #7 CGC 9.4 at $100 (if the dealer has both modern and SA books on their wall), will they even glance over at it?  And if their eye did catch upon it they would probably surmise that if it's an SA CGC 9.4 at only $100 then there's very little demand for it so why should they want it.  Apples to apples.   The common modern is to a common SA book as a key modern is to a key SA book as far as interest and desirability.  They can spend $100 on something they have no idea about or $200 on something within their focus and wheelhouse.  $200 on a semi key modern is also more appealing to them vs $100,000 on its key SA equivalent (1st Hulk)

Perhaps demand for that FF Annual 7 will shoot up now that we've just shown how cool it is.  Great now the price doubles and triples so it's now a $300 book.  Still out of focus for a modern collector and now 50% more than their Avengers #684 which is the 1st appearance of the Immortal Hulk.  Not really a new character but sort of a key to fans of the Immortal Hulk.  For modern collectors, this is their affordable entry point to a key collectible first appearance in high grade that is relevant to their focus since they can't afford the first SA Hulk appearance in high grade or even mid to low grade.

[dupont2005]

Sounds a whole lot like people buying Crates of Youngblood #1 instead of a nice EC 

[kimik]

Yet another thread about the state of the hobby. 

The trend is this - younger collectors buy keys/1st apps they want and consume trades/collected editions instead of floppies. Expect this to continue to become the norm as time goes by. The key/1st app/hot cover issues will continue to rise over time due to demand, while common issues become worth less and less. It is the same trend as the past 20 years.

Edited March 15, 2019 by kimik

[Black_Adam]

27 minutes ago, dupont2005 said:

Sounds a whole lot like people buying Crates of Youngblood #1 instead of a nice EC 

My point exactly. I have a (maybe misguided) suspicion that the bulk of buyers driving up the cost of Avengers #684 are doing so not because they love this new Immortal Hulk character, but because they think the book will shoot up in value (netting them a tidy profit). As always, time will tell. 

[dupont2005]

I always think people should buy whatever they want and if a crate of Youngblood #1 is what they want then more power to them. I think people who aren’t comic readers should invest in something other than moderns though because they almost crashed the entire industry in the 90’s

[Lazyboy]

3 hours ago, kimik said:

Yet another thread about the state of the hobby. 

Nope. Although the title is poorly worded, the thread is actually about the state of the industry.

[DavidTheDavid]

4 hours ago, kimik said:

Yet another thread about the state of the hobby. 

The trend is this - younger collectors buy keys/1st apps they want and consume trades/collected editions instead of floppies. Expect this to continue to become the norm as time goes by. The key/1st app/hot cover issues will continue to rise over time due to demand, while common issues become worth less and less. It is the same trend as the past 20 years.

I see this tpb play out on reddit. People show off their trades and collected editions, even referring to them as their collection. To me that’s odd, but hey, to each his own.

[dupont2005]

My collection is more and more premium HC than floppy. I find myself pulling something off the shelf to read more often than out of a box. And I like looking at the shelf