Counterfeit Cars, Comic Art, & Comic Books... 1 1

[Jimmy Linguini]

Just a quick FYI

"He’s not alone. In February, comedian Jerry Seinfeld was sued by Fica Frio Limited over the 2016 sale of a 1958 Porsche Carrera GT — for $1.54 million — which court papers call “not authentic.”"

The 1958 Porsche in question is being called "not authentic" because of extensive restoration. The idea that Jerry Seinfeld would own a fake porsche and try to scam someone at auction is beyond laughable.

[dupont2005]

51 minutes ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

If I were Dave Sim, I'd issue my own counterfeit edition so others weren't making profiting off of my property. Create it the same way the original counterfeiters made theirs

I’d create a new limited run product and make it exclusive to those who turn in their Cerebus fakes to be destroyed. Not another Cerebus reprint, an exclusive story. 

[WolverineX]

10 minutes ago, dupont2005 said:

I’d create a new limited run product and make it exclusive to those who turn in their Cerebus fakes to be destroyed. Not another Cerebus reprint, an exclusive story. 

That is really smart! Someone should message him. 

[1950's war comics]

it is well known to coin collectors to never buy certain coins - 1916D Mercury 1909 SVDB Lincoln etc.... as there are as many counterfeits as the real things

only buy certified ,,,

but what happens when the Chinese produce a fake coin inside fake slab that is impossible to detect

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

45 minutes ago, dupont2005 said:

I’d create a new limited run product and make it exclusive to those who turn in their Cerebus fakes to be destroyed. Not another Cerebus reprint, an exclusive story. 

That would probably make sales of counterfeits spike, if owners were being rewarded for owning one. My suggestion reduces the incentive of ever buying a counterfeit.

[PKJ]

Tag swapping in vintage cars is not new. I used to pull vin and data plates way back in the day from cars I thought were cool in junkyards. I have also sold completely rotted shells of cars that had impressive features or options that I always figured would make it's way on to basic cars. VW busses for example.

I would have to go back but it seems that Jerry restored that car and had tooling made to replace most of the parts using the same technology etc but it probably was only about 10% original car when done which is not uncommon any more in restorations.

What is just as scary in that hobby is there have been "finds" of authentic data plates that were never used that someone could imprint whatever they wanted. I have a Porsche tag like that in my desk.

 

 

 

[kav]

Wut you can do is get an old yugo and make a paper mache shell of a lamborghini then sell for big bux 

[pemart1966]

4 hours ago, Jimmy Linguini said:

Just a quick FYI

"He’s not alone. In February, comedian Jerry Seinfeld was sued by Fica Frio Limited over the 2016 sale of a 1958 Porsche Carrera GT — for $1.54 million — which court papers call “not authentic.”"

The 1958 Porsche in question is being called "not authentic" because of extensive restoration. The idea that Jerry Seinfeld would own a fake porsche and try to scam someone at auction is beyond laughable.

Depends upon what description came with the car at sale.  Someone may have felt that the description didn't match the reality of the car.  As for Jerry being involved?  He probably has people do that for him...

[dupont2005]

I wouldn’t consider extensive restoration to be a replica but the extent of the restoration has to be disclosed. If pretty much every panel had been replaced and patched you have to let them know

[PKJ]

11 hours ago, dupont2005 said:

I wouldn’t consider extensive restoration to be a replica but the extent of the restoration has to be disclosed. If pretty much every panel had been replaced and patched you have to let them know

This is not the same Porsche he built, that was a 550-03 my memory was hazy. This is one he bought from European Collectibles mis represented. Jerry is in turn suing them.

[Jimmy Linguini]

This guy put a pretty detailed video together about the entire Seinfeld thing.

 

[Bookery]

20 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

it is well known to coin collectors to never buy certain coins - 1916D Mercury 1909 SVDB Lincoln etc.... as there are as many counterfeits as the real things

only buy certified ,,,

but what happens when the Chinese produce a fake coin inside fake slab that is impossible to detect

If fake comics ever hit the market in numbers like has happened with coins, this is the way it will be done.  You don't have to counterfeit the comic.... just the cover inside a counterfeit slab.  And you don't do Action #1... too much scrutiny.  You stick to readily available mass-market collectibles like Hulk #181, NM #98, FF #48, etc.  Don't get greedy... make 7.0s, 8.0s, 9.0s at best... not 9.8s.  Disseminate them at half price at shows around the country.  Hard to trace back.

[justafan]

any cases of counterfeit OA?  I figure there are incredible counterfeit artists that make it impossible to tell priceless renaissance art from the original it's only a matter of time and value.  The choice in OA would have to be carefully chosen since most valuable OA has pretty well established provenance, a tight community, or known to have been destroyed.  For example it would be foolish to sell counterfeit AF15 OA considering most collectors know how impossible that sale would be. But if you found a bigger fool it would certainly pay off.

[kav]

37 minutes ago, justafan said:

any cases of counterfeit OA?  I figure there are incredible counterfeit artists that make it impossible to tell priceless renaissance art from the original it's only a matter of time and value.  The choice in OA would have to be carefully chosen since most valuable OA has pretty well established provenance, a tight community, or known to have been destroyed.  For example it would be foolish to sell counterfeit AF15 OA considering most collectors know how impossible that sale would be. But if you found a bigger fool it would certainly pay off.

It would not be possible to fake published OA.  There is just no way to recreate every line perfectly.  There was a fake Infantino Flash splash page floating around for a while.  Boy they tried so hard to recreate every single detail.  But a CAREFUL comparison revealed innumerable differences.  The main thing that sunk the attempt, tho, was the lettering.  Perfect lettering recreation is just IMPOSSIBLE.  It was discussed here. @Bill C is the owner of the actual page.
Also around the authentic pages are publisher notes etc, and the copyright stamp on back.  

Faking a da vinci painting is actually easier than faking an inked page-with a painting you can keep going over it with oil paint till you get it right.  With ink ya got one shot to get EVERY line perfect.

Edited March 5, 2019 by kav

[Tony S]

On 3/3/2019 at 3:35 PM, dupont2005 said:

Not really,the tooling used to make those four color newsprint comics are pretty much out of use, and they were expensive to begin with. It would be easier to counterfeit a modern comic than one from 80 years ago 

This. I don't believe most people recognize how difficult it is to print color on newsprint. The original printing presses for comics were so large that they built the buildings around the machine. Not moving the press into the building. Even today there are only a few places printing the Sunday newspaper funnies. I've attached a photo what the new "smaller" machines look like. 

There are a number of places that print comic books now. A Google search finds them. It's made publishing one's own comic in small numbers (100 is often a minimum) easy and not all that expensive.  You can get full color. But not on newsprint. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Tony S

[stock_rotation]

21 minutes ago, Tony S said:

There are a number of places that print comic books now. A Google search finds them. It's made publishing one's own comic in small numbers (100 is often a minimum) easy and not all that expensive.  You can get full color. But not on newsprint.

Sure you can, just don't buy newsprint on a roll. Buy it in 36x24 sheets instead and find a small printer who will run it 2/2 twice. The cost would be huge (20k?), but if you ran a 1000 copy run of IH181, you were picky and pulled 200 7.0 avg copies, with a little work, you'd probably clear half a mil.

[dupont2005]

The best way to counterfeit OA would be to counterfeit an unpublished story from someone known for doing side projects, self published stuff, etc. someone who had mastered Wally Wood could pull it off. Or counterfeit private notes and sketches from someone like Bob Kane designing a Batmobile on scrap paper or something. They’d have to pull off a convincing back story with the stuff too though as it would be under a ton of scrutiny.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, dupont2005 said:

The best way to counterfeit OA would be to counterfeit an unpublished story from someone known for doing side projects, self published stuff, etc. someone who had mastered Wally Wood could pull it off. Or counterfeit private notes and sketches from someone like Bob Kane designing a Batmobile on scrap paper or something. They’d have to pull off a convincing back story with the stuff too though as it would be under a ton of scrutiny.

Yep plenty of these type counterfeiters on ebay.  They use blank pages from old books sometimes to get the old paper look.  

[Tony S]

@stock_rotation

If it were that easy that's how your local newpaper would print the Sunday funnies. They don't. They contact King Features or Color Web Printers. 

Some newspapers can print their own. I had one doing catalogs for me years ago. Color Registration and quality was greatly lacking. And the newsprint didn't look at all like the newsprint comic books were printed on before 1980. 

There is a reason counterfeits are a problem only with black and white comics.  It is as dupont said. Once you have put all the effort that would be needed, it would become apparent that counterfeiting money was easier and more efficient. 

That is NOT to say there are no counterfeit color comics - including Hulk 181. But the counterfeits involve creating "Frankenstein" comics using one or more reprints. I remember the first one I saw in hand was a master of deception. A Hulk 181. A nicely photocopied cover on an interior made of up two different reprints. But the master stroke? A  real Mark Jewelers insert.  The slight of hand was getting the buyer totally focused on the MJ insert and ignore the warning signs of page numbers not being quite right and the cover while looking authentic have the wrong "feel".  And then there are reported cases of people taking the Famous First Editions, removing the cover, cutting the book down to the proper size and then attaching a color copy cover.  Just looks like a book with a poorly trimmed interior. It's easy to buy quality looking reproduction covers. Some are quite good. Just don't "feel" quite right. 

But starting from scratch with today's newsprint and try to get it look right on some off set or other common printer? Sorry. No one would fall for it. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Tony S

[NP_Gresham]

I recall there was at least one counterfeit copy of X-men #94 out there.

i am sure there're counterfeits of keys out there.