restoration removal blue label sale
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https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/science-fiction/planet-comics-1-fiction-house-1940-cgc-fn-55-off-white-pages/a/121909-11945.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyTrackedLots-101116

I watched this Planet Comics 1 in 5.5 sell yesterday for $6,600.  I apologize in advance if you won this auction and are psyched about the book, as I'm chasing one too and I'd be excited about it.  But it has clearly had color touch removed from the spine with an exacto knife or similar tool, and it appears there are even holes in the cover from this process.  Leaving aside whether the grade is correct, I am of the opinion that this book should NOT be receiving a blue label.  I don't believe CGC should set things up to incentivize cutting on classic books, and I'd bet the seller made a few grand off this "process".  I personally think the book looks hideous now.  These books have had a tough enough time lasting 80 years, why get a new generation cutting and modifying them to chase a buck?  When someone is removing color touch, and in the process removing original color from the cover, they are pretty much by definition restoring/changing/conserving (take your pick) the book.  I think these books should get at a minimum a Conserved label, and I think you could even argue this is a type of trimming.  I'd appreciate hearing what some of you think about this issue.

This also raises the secondary question of tracking provenance.  I think CGC should be trying to provide provenance/history of books that have been re-subbed after these types of operations (when possible)  This is no different than chain of title for a classic car or provenance for a piece of art, and would provide a buyer MORE info to tell them the history of the item and where it has been, which will help the market more fully understand one that is for sale.  I realize this may not be easy.  But with a Planet 1 with only 60 total graded books, it shouldn't be impossible to find out what this book was before, if it had been previously graded (obviously this would be far more difficult for a Hulk 181).  And it would both cut down on re-sub grade chasers and restorers who can hide what a book was.  Which also inflates the pool of information about what actually exists (and it wouldn't surprise me if they have an internal process for tracking some of these).  After all what good is a census if some percentage of the total has been counted multiple times?  But this is a different problem and somewhat distinct from the above.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, mwotka said:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/science-fiction/planet-comics-1-fiction-house-1940-cgc-fn-55-off-white-pages/a/121909-11945.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyTrackedLots-101116

I watched this Planet Comics 1 in 5.5 sell yesterday for $6,600.  I apologize in advance if you won this auction and are psyched about the book, as I'm chasing one too and I'd be excited about it.  But it has clearly had color touch removed from the spine with an exacto knife or similar tool, and it appears there are even holes in the cover from this process.  Leaving aside whether the grade is correct, I am of the opinion that this book should NOT be receiving a blue label.  I don't believe CGC should set things up to incentivize cutting on classic books, and I'd bet the seller made a few grand off this "process".  I personally think the book looks hideous now.  These books have had a tough enough time lasting 80 years, why get a new generation cutting and modifying them to chase a buck?  When someone is removing color touch, and in the process removing original color from the cover, they are pretty much by definition restoring/changing/conserving (take your pick) the book.  I think these books should get at a minimum a Conserved label, and I think you could even argue this is a type of trimming.  I'd appreciate hearing what some of you think about this issue.

This also raises the secondary question of tracking provenance.  I think CGC should be trying to provide provenance/history of books that have been re-subbed after these types of operations (when possible)  This is no different than chain of title for a classic car or provenance for a piece of art, and would provide a buyer MORE info to tell them the history of the item and where it has been, which will help the market more fully understand one that is for sale.  I realize this may not be easy.  But with a Planet 1 with only 60 total graded books, it shouldn't be impossible to find out what this book was before, if it had been previously graded (obviously this would be far more difficult for a Hulk 181).  And it would both cut down on re-sub grade chasers and restorers who can hide what a book was.  Which also inflates the pool of information about what actually exists (and it wouldn't surprise me if they have an internal process for tracking some of these).  After all what good is a census if some percentage of the total has been counted multiple times?  But this is a different problem and somewhat distinct from the above.  

Whoa! :whatthe:

pc44.jpg

Edited by Chaos_in_Canada

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36 minutes ago, mwotka said:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/science-fiction/planet-comics-1-fiction-house-1940-cgc-fn-55-off-white-pages/a/121909-11945.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyTrackedLots-101116

I watched this Planet Comics 1 in 5.5 sell yesterday for $6,600.  I apologize in advance if you won this auction and are psyched about the book, as I'm chasing one too and I'd be excited about it.  But it has clearly had color touch removed from the spine with an exacto knife or similar tool, and it appears there are even holes in the cover from this process.  Leaving aside whether the grade is correct, I am of the opinion that this book should NOT be receiving a blue label.  I don't believe CGC should set things up to incentivize cutting on classic books, and I'd bet the seller made a few grand off this "process".  I personally think the book looks hideous now.  These books have had a tough enough time lasting 80 years, why get a new generation cutting and modifying them to chase a buck?  When someone is removing color touch, and in the process removing original color from the cover, they are pretty much by definition restoring/changing/conserving (take your pick) the book.  I think these books should get at a minimum a Conserved label, and I think you could even argue this is a type of trimming.  I'd appreciate hearing what some of you think about this issue.

This also raises the secondary question of tracking provenance.  I think CGC should be trying to provide provenance/history of books that have been re-subbed after these types of operations (when possible)  This is no different than chain of title for a classic car or provenance for a piece of art, and would provide a buyer MORE info to tell them the history of the item and where it has been, which will help the market more fully understand one that is for sale.  I realize this may not be easy.  But with a Planet 1 with only 60 total graded books, it shouldn't be impossible to find out what this book was before, if it had been previously graded (obviously this would be far more difficult for a Hulk 181).  And it would both cut down on re-sub grade chasers and restorers who can hide what a book was.  Which also inflates the pool of information about what actually exists (and it wouldn't surprise me if they have an internal process for tracking some of these).  After all what good is a census if some percentage of the total has been counted multiple times?  But this is a different problem and somewhat distinct from the above.  

That's precisely why they won't do what you're suggesting.   

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Given the removal, I'm surprised it got a 5.5

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That does look terrible. Not all books look that bad when CT is removed.

Full disclosure: I used to own a Hulk #1 Purple label 7.5 CGC. Then I had the CT removed, the book still looked tremendous, aaaand... I now own a Hulk #1 6.5 Universal label. :smile:

So I do have a horse in the race on this topic.

That said, it seems reasonable that the grader notes should reference removing restoration. I don't think that means it should get a different color label, though. If the resto is gone, then it should be Universal. However, disclose what WAS there in the grader notes... so that collectors who don't want a "CT'd then unCT'd" book could act accordingly. 

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On 3/4/2019 at 7:44 PM, faster friends said:

Yea, that looks terrible.

Its just spine creases 😝

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but wouldn't the CT removal then affect the grade? 

as I would assume if it had the colour touch still on, it would grade higher but with a purple label

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