Thoughts on framing art next to final production 1 1

[Varanis]

8 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Unless you DIY, quality framing costs a lot of money. I have a local art gallery that I have gotten quotes from (they will do it 100% right and actually appreciate comic art) and it’s not cheap. Unless you have art that’s more valuable than the frame, it’s not worth going whole hog on archival materials, museum glass etc. 

How much were the quotes for? I'm anticipating $200-$300, which, right or wrong, is much less than I paid for the art. 

[JadeGiant]

I remember thinking I was going to frame everything with the art and comic page together when I first considered framing. After seeing a few done up, I was less than thrilled with the look. I do think the frame up can take focus from the art and the excessive matting around the comic page can come off awkward (to my eye at least). I have seen a few done up nice and a couple really nice one where the comic cover was also included. Add all of the above with the cost, I decided not to go this route.

[Pete Marino]

I only have custom frames for my paintings and only 1 piece of comic art.  The comic art is a DPS, so it won't fit into a standard size 11x17 frame and I know I won't be selling it any time soon.

Otherwise, I have generic size frames with UV plexi that i swap stuff in and out of.  I like rotating the art, I feel like if it's always the same thing on the walls you start to take it for granted.

Paintings I feel like need to be framed and up, because they're usually large and a PITA to store safely.

[Varanis]

Here's how the piece ended up. I think it turned out great. It cost $298.35 with tax using all archival materials. The next art I'm going to have framed is substantially more valuable than this piece and I plan to have it framed the same way. Anything here you'd caution me against with a more expensive piece? Exact materials used are listed below.

Frame - AMPF 7400 Black 1.375" Wedge

Mats (from outer to inner) Bainbridge 12004 Kid Glove, Bainbridge 12021 Anthracite, Bainbridge 12004 Kid Glove

Total visible mat width - 3" top and sides, 3.25" bottom weight

Art mounted to hidden 3/16" acid-free foam core pedestal on B12004

Top 2 mats elevated with 3/16" acid-free foam core

All backed with 3/16" acid-free foam core

Tru-Vue Conservation Clear glass

[ESeffinga]

13 minutes ago, Varanis said:

 

Art mounted to hidden 3/16" acid-free foam core pedestal on B12004

 

The float mount can be a nice presentation. Very classy. But the part that gives me pause is above.

Mounted how? I’m assuming some form of acid free hinge, but I never assume where my own art is concerned. 

Attaching art to a front or rear mount by reversible archival means is totally normal. Mounting art to an acid free board in any more permanent capacity is totally not normal. But it happens. Farmers mount prints and things all the time unless they are told not to. I once saw someone who had incorrectly mounted a signed pro jersey in a display box. 

I frame all my own art now, but if I didn’t, I’d certainly want to be sure of every facet of the process, and stress that I didn’t want anything used that was not 100% totally reversible. Even at the cost of it looking slightly less than perfect when it is together ... Some thin papers and illustrations don’t float mount well without signs of hanging less than flat, or waviness over time. It doesn’t harm the art, but in those cases I’d not float mount at all, typically. 

Im guessing they know what they are doing, regarding the archival nature of the work, being original, but I’d ask for peace of mind, before I did another.

FWIW.

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by ESeffinga

[Varanis]

1 minute ago, ESeffinga said:

The float mount can be a nice presentation. Very classy. But the part that gives me pause is above.

Mounted how? I’m assuming some form of acid free hinge, but I never assume where my own art is concerned. 

Attaching art to a front or rear mount by reversible archival means is totally normal. Mounting art to an acid free board in any more permanent capacity is totally not normal. But it happens. Farmers mount prints and things all the time unless they are told not to. I once saw someone who had incorrectly mounted a signed pro jersey in a display box. 

I frame all my own art now, but if I didn’t, I’d certainly want to be sure of every facet of the process, and stress that I didn’t want anything used that was not 100% totally reversible. Even at the cost of it looking slightly less than perfect when it is together (some thin papers and illustrations don’t float mount well without signs of hanging less than flat, or waviness over time. It doesn’t harm the art, but in those cases I’d not float mount at all, typically. 

 

FWIW.

 

Yep! It's mounted using acid free hinges. I'm not certain of the exact type, but it was something I clarified multiple times with the framer. If it helps, I believe the framer said it could be reversed by using a moist q-tip to dissolve where the hinges attach. I'm not super familiar with hinges, so let me know if that makes sense. He reassured me it was easily reversible with zero risk of damage.

Everything I own so far is on bristol board, which seems to float mount well. Is there much risk of a piece detaching from its mount after hanging for awhile?

[ESeffinga]

Sounds like a form of Japanese hinge. Most use manufactured product for those, but it should be all good.

[Varanis]

1 minute ago, ESeffinga said:

Sounds like a form of Japanese hinge. Most use manufactured product for those, but it should be all good.

Awesome! Thank you! I have one piece that is singularly more significant and valuable than my others. For that piece only I was thinking of upgrading the pedestal to an even safer archival material since it comes into contact most with the art. Do you think that would be necessary? Most folks I ask say the acid-free foam core is plenty fine, but my framer mentioned it still carried some minimal risk.

[ESeffinga]

Well hinges can and do occasionally fail. On one hand, they are designed to, if the piece were to fall from the wall because of an earthquake or some such event. It’s a form of protection.

But I’ve had pieces that were hinged where the hinge lost its grip on the art after being on the wall for 20 years. In that case it was in a traditional matting setup and not on any kind of float mount pedestal, so it merely started to look a little crooked in the frame. I took it down, rehinged it an re hung it. Most never budge. The ”glue” is a form of inert starch that’s been used for hundreds of years. Doesnt yellow, and a dab of moisture with a qtip will release it without damage. Museums use them constantly. 

Had my art been free floating when hinge failed, it would have likely dropped to the bottom of the frame. 

Would that harm the art? Maybe if it stayed that way. I dare say most comicart board would maybe suffer a blunted corner dropping 3 people inches in an enclosed frame environment. I’d be hard pressed to think it would be worse than that unless left sitting that way down n the frame for days/ weeks on end?

And while a blunted/bent tip might mean thousands in lost value for a comic. With OA, it’s the only one. Super minor condition issues like “handling” defects are more of a mental issue than a financial one, at the end of the day.

Would having the piece sandwiched in acid free material offer a more secure method for your art? Most looking kelt. Also less likely to develop slight waviness from fluctuating humidities, etc. over the decades. But the level of “damage” it risks is IMO negligible. 

There are other folks on here that would lock such a piece in a vault and never let it see the light of day, lest it suffer any form of degradation at all. They’d rather not look at it than fear for it’s perfect safety. 

To some I imagine float mounting a treasure would be tantamount to crucifying it. But I say enjoy the art in whatever way you can while you can, while being mindful of it’s care as well. 

If you are the sort that does things out of an abundance of caution, don’t float it. If you are the sort that prefers an aesthetic over the minimal risks of slight inconvenience and MAYBE a slightly dinged corner, float away.

Edited June 12, 2019 by ESeffinga

[delekkerste]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:36 PM, Varanis said:

Is there any reason I should not frame the art this way? As someone new to this part of the hobby, this seems like a great way to document the history of the piece. That said, I don't see many people frame their art this way, so I'm assuming there are a good number of reasons not to.

Just seems really tacky to me. Like those collectibles shops in the shopping mall which frame pictures or posters around a cut-out autograph. I say let the art stand on its own; you can always show someone the published comic separately if you have to (and you will probably never have to).  

[Bronty]

Rule of thumb is don’t do.   I think there are limited exceptions where framing art and published together is ok (typically where art is very large and published very small) but if in doubt, just don’t.

[Varanis]

4 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Just seems really tacky to me. Like those collectibles shops in the shopping mall which frame pictures or posters around a cut-out autograph. I say let the art stand on its own; you can always show someone the published comic separately if you have to (and you will probably never have to).  

 

3 hours ago, Bronty said:

Rule of thumb is don’t do.   I think there are limited exceptions where framing art and published together is ok (typically where art is very large and published very small) but if in doubt, just don’t.

I have definitely seen the light on this. See a few posts up for pictures of what I ultimately went with. I think it turned out quite well and plan to frame future pieces in the same way.

[Varanis]

14 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

To some I imagine float mounting a treasure would be tantamount to crucifying it. But I say enjoy the art in whatever way you can while you can, while being mindful of it’s care as well. 

I am with you on this. As you point out, the unique nature of OA makes it much less of a concern as well.

[NelsonAI]

Nice job with the framing.  Reasonable price for what looks to be a quality job.  In NYC, it would cost many times more. 

 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 3/7/2019 at 2:29 PM, JadeGiant said:

I remember thinking I was going to frame everything with the art and comic page together when I first considered framing. After seeing a few done up, I was less than thrilled with the look. I do think the frame up can take focus from the art and the excessive matting around the comic page can come off awkward (to my eye at least). I have seen a few done up nice and a couple really nice one where the comic cover was also included. Add all of the above with the cost, I decided not to go this route.

There's no reason to frame the ACTUAL printed page. You can get a good scan of it off the internet and print it out at the same size as the art. It actually looks better.

[dichotomy]

Chipping in with my 2 cents - 

Though a relatively new collector, I'm lucky enough to have a Framing Workshop right across the street from me, so I've done a lot of framing - maybe about 50 pieces. 

1. As other have mentioned, there is absolutely nothing wrong with framing OA next to a published piece if you enjoy that. If you're a collector just getting started, you will likely want more frames in the future, and you'll be glad for the wall space you saved. Large frames also get exponentially more expensive, and increasingly difficult to work with. Personally, I feel the art works best alone. 

2. Regarding framing, it really is that last flourish that can accentuate and present a piece of art in the best possible way. I use mats and frames to accentuate color and reduce yellowing, if necessary. My black and white pieces are generally now ending up with a black mat (a rag or black core, so there is no white lip), a black frame (usually matte metal for cost effectiveness), and art glass (UV protection and glare reduction). Pieces with color or even blue lines can give you a lot more room to work. I'll include some examples below. 

3. Metal Frames - These are a favorite of mine now. Quick to put together and, easy to take apart. Others on this thread mentioned taking artwork out of frames and replacing it with something else, and metal frames are excellent for this. You can do it at home in about ten minutes. 

4. Floating - Not something I do a lot of personally. For me it's more moving parts and more chances for something to slip or fail. Also, depending on where you live, it may not be the best option because of humidity. I also prefer how an archival mat is pressing the edges of the piece down. 

5. Custom Mats - If you befriend your framer there a world of customization options that can add subtle flair. Custom cuts, painted lips, and reverse lips are just some of the option. I'll include some examples below. 

6. If the glass is resting directly on the art, then consider using plexiglass instead. You can get archival, UV + non-glare plexiglass quite cheap. I mentioned Art Glass above - definitely nice, but it is pricey, and on some bigger pieces I have just used UV glass (but I always regret it in the long run).

7. Mat - How you frame a piece can also make a big difference. I have a Sandman page that I treasure, not least for all the corrections and notes in the margins, but I've framed it with a double lip that is intended to hide everything but the artwork and push forward the Japanese theme of the page. Then it becomes my secret as to what is hidden below the mat. With watercolor pieces I often want to show the edges, so then I'll leave some breathing room around everything before the mat starts. 

8. NO SUNLIGHT! If it's anything of value, no matter the kind of glass, keep it out of the sun, PARTICULARLY watercolors. 

I'll cut it off there - as you can see, framing can be quite the rabbit-hole, but well worth it when it's something you see every day. One last example - my Authority #1 cover recreation is huge, and full of detail - I've framed it with a large black mat, with art glass, and hung at eye level in a high traffic area - I pause to look at it all the time, and it is the best way I can think to enjoy a spectacular piece of art. 

Happy Collecting! 

P.S. Sorry for the poor quality of some of the photographs. A lot of the nuance of color and frame finish is lost. Some of the specialty finished metal frames, like the dragonfly green on the Hulk, are really great in person. Also, sorry for the ghetto editing. 

P.P.S. When you get something framed, save your copy of the order and attach it behind the picture when you hang it up. Then, in the future, if you want to replicate the framing for some reason, you have all the details. For example, when I got my second IG page, I wanted to replicate the framing, and we got all the components right, but the reveal on the black mat was 1/4" in the original, and we guesstimated 1/8" when we cut for the second. If I had had the original receipt, we would have got it right.  

Watchmen - The image is in great shape, but has pretty severe frame burn, so I had to go in tight. This is an example of the all-black w/ Art glass. 

Infinity Gauntlet - A couple of problems here - both pages are different sizes, so the mat helps disguise that and allows me to frame them the same finished size. The Thanos page has marks on the margins, but the image is clean, so it presents MUCH cleaner in the frame with a mat like this. 

Hulk - The purple mat and green frame call in the color nicely, and the mat helps me place the image evenly in the frame, and hide all the empty white space above. 

Snoopy - I wanted this to radiate happiness and sunshine. 

Vader's Little Princess - This came floating in a simple black frame on white with plexiglass. I didn't like the frame or the plexiglass, so I upgraded. Photo doesn't do it justice. Plus, when I was reframing, I discovered some secret doodling and notes behind. 

Norse Joker/Batman - This was an unusual one for me, but decided to try something different to give it the weight it deserves. The mat is a green, fabric based board, and the lip was painted to match the blood tones in the image. Similarly the Kirby Odin - I wanted it to have gravity, and I loved the engraving effect around the frame that had a very Asgardian feel to it. A black core gold mat finishes the piece. 

Damian and Jon - This is my favorite example of a custom mat. The little cut for Damian's staff just makes everything perfect. I think the proportions and the colors work well too.

 

[cstojano]

Nice post and pictures. 

Since you mentioned watercolors I was curious if people knew about the relative affects of light exposure on other sorts of paints. I assume oils are pretty resilient, but what about acrylic and gouache?

 

 

[dichotomy]

9 minutes ago, cstojano said:

Nice post and pictures. 

Since you mentioned watercolors I was curious if people knew about the relative affects of light exposure on other sorts of paints. I assume oils are pretty resilient, but what about acrylic and gouache?

 

 

I treat acrylic as pretty resistant, and then grade down as the acrylic is diluted, which includes some gouache which can have varying degrees of acrylic infused/mixed. 

[ESeffinga]

Pigment based paints are going to be less light reactive than anything dye based. With oils, what tends to happen is not to the pigment based paint, but the yellowing of the varnish. This can be restored/corrected if a varnish coat has outlived it's clarity, but it tends to take decades to really notice. Acrylic is pretty lightfast, but as with any plastic based paint (your home latex for instance) not all manufacturers and colors are created equal. Gouache in particular is color specific when it comes to it's color retention. Watercolor, Dr. Martin color dyes, and any other dye based paints are going to fade. Some colors can fade in months.

Same goes for markers for that matter. If in doubt, keep the sun out.
Or be a stick in the mud like me, I just don't collect the stuff I can't hang and live with.

For some that is a bridge way too far. So in those cases, keeping the work totally out of the sun and protected in a portfolio or flat file is best.

Also keep in mind when matting, that whatever your mat shape, you can very likely end up with reverse "mat burn". So if you cut your mats to funny shapes, and they see UV (they always get some UV, even in UV resistant glass), in a decade or more/less if you remove your art from a frame/mat, you may well notice the page is darker in the viewing area exposed than it is in the margins that are covered by mats. And if there are any lines bleeding off the page, those lines may be darker under the matt, because what was exposed has faded slightly.

So there's that.