UPDATED: My Nominee for the "First Great Comic Collector" 12 12

[bc]

[woowoo]

13 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

I'm thinking about casting my vote for Mitchell Mehdy before another shoe drops or Bob Beerbohm files a non-compete suit against sfcityduck.   

[Cat-Man_America]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

If the topic is a top 10 or 20 comic collectors/dealers list, you can count me out.  I'd probably have trouble keeping a list below a top 100 or more!  There are so many "greats" that have arisen because comic collecting has been going very strong since the early 1960s, over 50 years ago.  But, those greats are just a fraction of the far larger number of ordinary comic collectors, and truly deserve to be called "greats."  

If the topic is who belongs on the Mt. Rushmore of comic collecting, I would not be putting on Dave on my top four list.  

But, for me, Dave is a really interesting character and he deserves attention for what he was.

But, my guess is that most folks lurking out there are wondering what happened to his collection.

 

That's not at all what I'm talking about.  You're absolutely right that Dave is interesting and deserves this attention, but off the top of my head I can think of numerous other folks who've contributed nearly as much overall and in some cases much more in the individual categories outlined.  This isn't about dismissing Dave's accomplishments nor self-aggrandizement, but with such a broad range of categories, it's about inclusion and honorable mention.  

For instance, arguably Mitch Mehdy did more to change the culture by bringing collecting to broader public attention in the mid-1970's.  True, luck and opportunity were also involved, but that's often the case with cultural shifts.  While Mitch is no shrinking violet when it comes to projecting his views on comics, it's impossible to ignore the legacy. 

A more modest example might be that of the late Jerry Weist, who was an early passionate EC fan/collector who became a fanzine publisher and then semi-pro publisher who went on to lay the groundwork for legitimizing investment grade comics collectibles through Sotheby's Auctions in the late 70's, ...or Bob Overstreet whose annual Guides still retain relevance in the hobby, ...or Alan Light, ...or G. B. Love.  

Certainly collectors who've attained pedigree status deserve more than a modicum of personal recognition.  There are dealers and collectors worthy of a shout out as well, many of whom started out merely as fans building a collection.  Also artists and writers who've gone on to lucrative careers in the comics industry.

I'm not arguing against your impassioned defense of Dave being the first great comic collector.  You've won that, AFAIC.  That said, in some ways a broad spectrum of achievement actually works against the argument.  Dave comes across somewhat like a "Jack of all trades" fan when there are other folks who ...in my estimation... stand out more in some of the categories you've considered.  In the final analysis, if one is building a case by counting the number of angels that can be placed on the head of a pin, the devil's in the details.  

Edited March 10, 2019 by Cat-Man_America

[Randall Dowling]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

But, my guess is that most folks lurking out there are wondering what happened to his collection.

If you tell me Dave’s books eventually landed in Bang Zoom’s collection, I’m going to freak out. 

Seriously, though, I would very much like to hear whatever else you have about Dave.  Including what happened to him.

[sfcityduck]

14 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

If you tell me Dave’s books eventually landed in Bang Zoom’s collection, I’m going to freak out. 

 

The really big lot that includes the best comics from Bangzoom's collection were purchased at Campbell Borthers, 8th & C Streets N.E., Washington D.C.

Bangzoom once told this story about that collection:

Quote

 

One day, approximately 20 years after purchasing the collection, it suddenly occurred to me that my father-in law had recently moved a few blocks from that location. Next time we were in town to visit, my wife and I made a point to drive by the spot where Campbell Bros had been in business. Not surprisingly the store was long since gone, but decals advertising various 1930s/40s items were still on the windows. I took photographs of the storefront and then we walked around the corner to where the original owner of the comics had lived. (His name and address were on several of the books.)

 I was taking photos of the house when a woman came outside and asked what I was doing. I explained my interest and she graciously invited us inside. The house was now a Doctor's office. The woman (who worked for the Doctor) showed us around the entire home, from the basement to the 2nd floor where the bedrooms had remained basically untouched. There were a few boxes on the floor but the rooms were otherwise empty. She knew the original homeowners and told me about the family. From her description I made my own conclusion about which room had most likely been the boy's room. I spent extra time walking around the room and looking outside the window down the street towards the old location of the stationery (where I assume most of the comics had been purchased) and just generally trying to imagine that time in history.

 

Bangzoom got the books because the owner's mother had tossed the collection in a garbage can and a neighbor rescued them.  This was in the early 70s.

Dave died in 1969.  His mom cleaned out the house and moved out of D.C. in the early 1970s.

 

Spoiler

But, no those books of Bangzoom's were not Wigransky's collection.

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by sfcityduck

[Readcomix]

Loving this thread as a meandering history of one seminal early collector; whether or not OP's hypothesis of first (as in earliest, not pre-eminent) great collector is defensible and/or provable. (Though I'm leaning toward you're doing a helluva job!)

While Cat raises many valid points about the number of significant pioneers who have advanced the hobby, none of it diminishes Dave, and a spotlight on Dave diminishes no other deserving collector. I'd read a thread about each of them, boardies or not, and I'd also enjoy a thread about a top 20 or top 100 or some-such. It's all great history of our hobby, and thank you @sfcityduck for this in-depth profile in slow reveal style. 

So what DID become of this pioneering fiend's books???

(FYI -- I have no higher compliment for a fellow collector than fiend -- that's how the owner of my childhood LCS referred to a subset of his regulars when they came in the door: "Ah! The fiends are here! They MUST have their books!")

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, Readcomix said:

While Cat raises many valid points about the number of significant pioneers who have advanced the hobby, none of it diminishes Dave, and a spotlight on Dave diminishes no other deserving collector. I'd read a thread about each of them,

As usual, I think the Cat-Man and I are really in agreement.  I of course agree with him about the value of inclusion.  

[Readcomix]

4 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

As usual, I think the Cat-Man and I are really in agreement.  I of course agree with him about the value of inclusion.  

Agreed, it shows in your exchange with each other. Cat-Man has great and valid points, but I cannot begin to imagine tackling that breadth and depth of research to do the "overview" thread as I look at the work you've put into profiling one person. Such a thread would truly rely on many contributors, I would think.

There is a chapter eventually on what became of Dave's books, right? (I promise to wait patiently for it!)

[sfcityduck]

50 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said:

For instance, arguably Mitch Mehdy did more to change the culture by bringing collecting to broader public attention in the mid-1970's.  True, luck and opportunity were also involved, but that's often the case with cultural shifts.  While Mitch is no shrinking violet when it comes to projecting his views on comics, it's impossible to ignore the legacy. 

 

Cat, unlike you, I've never met or spoken with Mitch (who I recall sold you a cool pulp cover).  I envy you that opportunity.  I did recently buy an item from Theo Holstein that I'm extremely grateful he agreed to sell to me (and it was a great transaction).  It's hard for me separate Mitch and Theo when it comes to the whole "King of Comics" episode.  But, I totally agree with your analysis of the impact of that.  The history of comic collecting has a broad tapestry of "greats," and I'm fully aware that they include a lot of interesting characters.  I feel very lucky that a fair number of them share their knowledge on these boards.  Inspired by them, when I have a good story to tell, I go ahead and tell it.  Hopefully, folks have learned something from the stories I've told in the past (such as about "The Nightingale" and the "The Four Immigrants" graphic novel) and this one here.  I certainly enjoy it, Cat, when you share your comics (regardless of who encapsulated them) and stories.

[tth2]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Dave died in 1969. 

This thread had piqued my curiosity enough for me to google him, and I was very disappointed to find out that he died very young, and well before comic collecting had truly taken off.

I couldn't find anything that indicated cause of death at such a young age, though.

[Randall Dowling]

27 minutes ago, tth2 said:

This thread had piqued my curiosity enough for me to google him, and I was very disappointed to find out that he died very young, and well before comic collecting had truly taken off.

I couldn't find anything that indicated cause of death at such a young age, though.

From what I read, he died of some sort of stomach cancer.  Very sad.

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

2 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

If you tell me Dave’s books eventually landed in Bang Zoom’s collection, I’m going to freak out. 

 

The really big lot that includes the best comics from Bangzoom's collection were purchased at Campbell Borthers, 8th & C Streets N.E., Washington D.C.

Bangzoom once told this story about that collection:

Quote

 

One day, approximately 20 years after purchasing the collection, it suddenly occurred to me that my father-in law had recently moved a few blocks from that location. Next time we were in town to visit, my wife and I made a point to drive by the spot where Campbell Bros had been in business. Not surprisingly the store was long since gone, but decals advertising various 1930s/40s items were still on the windows. I took photographs of the storefront and then we walked around the corner to where the original owner of the comics had lived. (His name and address were on several of the books.)

 I was taking photos of the house when a woman came outside and asked what I was doing. I explained my interest and she graciously invited us inside. The house was now a Doctor's office. The woman (who worked for the Doctor) showed us around the entire home, from the basement to the 2nd floor where the bedrooms had remained basically untouched. There were a few boxes on the floor but the rooms were otherwise empty. She knew the original homeowners and told me about the family. From her description I made my own conclusion about which room had most likely been the boy's room. I spent extra time walking around the room and looking outside the window down the street towards the old location of the stationery (where I assume most of the comics had been purchased) and just generally trying to imagine that time in history.

 

Bangzoom got the books because the owner's mother had tossed the collection in a garbage can and a neighbor rescued them.  This was in the early 70s.

Dave died in 1969.  His mom cleaned out the house and moved out of D.C. in the early 1970s.

 

  Hide contents

But, no those books of Bangzoom's were not Wigransky's collection.

How sure are you that they did not end up in Bangzoom's collection?  

After all, it sounds like the same city, same time period, and maybe the same mother and the same garbage can. 

I just wished it had been me passing by that garbage can back then.    

[sfcityduck]

3 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

From what I read, he died of some sort of stomach cancer.  Very sad.

Several of his friends have stated he died of a stroke or aneurysm.  Knowles put it this way:  "This was to be the last day that we ever saw Beer Dave because he died later; his brain exploded, his mother told me later."

 

[sfcityduck]

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

How sure are you that they did not end up in Bangzoom's collection?  

 

Based on Bangzoom's description of the neighborhood where his comics were discovered, very sure.  It's just a different part of D.C. than that which Dave lived in.

[sfcityduck]

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

 

I just wished it had been me passing by that garbage can back then. 

Worth noting, Bangzoom wasn't the guy who fished those comics out of a garbage can.  Instead, he got those comics the same way Dave sought back issues - by taking out classifieds in national publications.  I think Bangzoom started doing that in the mid-60s.  It obviously was a very successful strategy.

[Randall Dowling]

27 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Several of his friends have stated he died of a stroke or aneurysm.  Knowles put it this way:  "This was to be the last day that we ever saw Beer Dave because he died later; his brain exploded, his mother told me later."

 

I got it from one of the comments on the various pages that mention him but it’s probably wrong.  

In any case, do we know what actually happened to his collection?  I was wondering if he didn’t donate it to the LoC.

[Pickie]

6 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Hopefully, folks have learned something from the stories I've told in the past (such as about "The Nightingale" and the "The Four Immigrants" graphic novel) and this one here.  I certainly enjoy it, Cat, when you share your comics (regardless of who encapsulated them) and stories.

"Comics and Stories"  

I loved your report about "The Nightingale". You seem to me like a comicbook detective!

And Dave's books? I wouldn't be surprised if he'd trashed them in the end or if he'd traded them for beer. But if he'd donated them to the Library of Congress - there's possibly a hint in this thread - I'd be amazed!

Please go on.

 

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

While I am not interested in determining who is a great comic collector and whether they tick all sorts of boxes (I think anyone who collects comic books on whatever scale is as valid as anyone else) I am really enjoying this thread. I have read page one in detail and it's fascinating. I had heard of Dave before because he was mentioned in 'THE TEN CENT PLAGUE' but I had no idea of his amazing articulation, no less his fervour for collecting funny books.

I intend to read all this thread and I have to say that this is one of the best threads it has been my pleasure to stumble across...so far. Thank you for your time on this. 

[jimjum12]

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 4:10 PM, sfcityduck said:

"An Al Jolson doesn't come once in a lifetime.  He comes once." 

GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Cat-Man_America]

7 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Cat, unlike you, I've never met or spoken with Mitch (who I recall sold you a cool pulp cover).  I envy you that opportunity.  I did recently buy an item from Theo Holstein that I'm extremely grateful he agreed to sell to me (and it was a great transaction).  It's hard for me separate Mitch and Theo when it comes to the whole "King of Comics" episode.  But, I totally agree with your analysis of the impact of that.  The history of comic collecting has a broad tapestry of "greats," and I'm fully aware that they include a lot of interesting characters.  I feel very lucky that a fair number of them share their knowledge on these boards.  Inspired by them, when I have a good story to tell, I go ahead and tell it.  Hopefully, folks have learned something from the stories I've told in the past (such as about "The Nightingale" and the "The Four Immigrants" graphic novel) and this one here.  I certainly enjoy it, Cat, when you share your comics (regardless of who encapsulated them) and stories.

Actually, Mitch acted as my contact, helping me broker a deal with Theo on two original paintings, a stunning Shadow pulp cover by George Rozen and one of Alex Schomburg's greatest cover recreations (MM #66), a personal grail I'd been seeking years before the acquisition.  Yes, Theo was much easier to deal with than I'd heard from some quarters and quite entertaining to visit with.  

BTW, your stories are quite educational even for someone as jaded to this hobby as myself.  I'm totally with you on Dave's importance and focusing on someone who was into serious collecting so early.  Even though the points I was making earlier may have come across as argumentative, that wasn't my intent.  I'm persuaded by the facts you've provided on Dave, which are both probative and valuable to the hobby.