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The fallacy of "IH181 is overvalued/overpriced"
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272 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

I have many times, but the same post keeps popping up.

dang.

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3 hours ago, comicwiz said:

...this appetite to gain kinship by seeking out the handful of keys everyone thinks you need to own to be taken seriously as a collector.

This is so true. I belong to a couple of whiskey groups but left when I realized over 50% of the posts were people showing off their collections asking, "did I do this right?"

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3 hours ago, NoMan said:

I don't see it. Don't see any or it.

Kids today don't collect comics. They don't care. Of course your wonderful children and their friend or two love to read and they know ASM 129 from Rom 1 to IH 181 to what-the-heck ever, however, the majority of young people today want and do stare at screens all day. They don't read anything tangible nor do they care to hence no nostalgic factor for a comic book. That means in 20 - 25 years mostly no one is gonna want your precious collection entombed in plastic. 

I don't care how well the MCU movies are doing now. (When I get really bored I go to movie section of the boards and see people arguing about grosses and have to laugh. You guys got points in these films or something?) The majority of of kids (and adults, sadly) would watch a monkey throw its waste matter discharged from its bowels on a wall if that's what was playing at the multiplex. I've worked in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles for 30 years and that's how the head honchos talk about you, Dear MCU Fanatics. I KNOW YOUR CHILDREN ARE SPECIAL AND LIKE TO READ AND WANT QUALITY ENTERTAINMENT. AND THEIR FRIENDS! I'm simply talking about the majority of young people. A couple of smart kids brought up by a couple of smart folks here can't support this hobby. 

I don't care how many people flood conventions. It's all dress up. Most cosplay girls look like harlots off to the strip club and get mad when the guys look at 'em. The guys, hell, I don't know what their deal is. It's creative and at least people aren't shooting each other, so it's all good. The point is the comic back issue folks are shoved off to a tiny corner. Why? Because selling comic books IS NOT THE DRAW like it used to be because the majority of people aren't buying. Duh! 

Some of you here see back issue market booming cause that's all you know. It's what all your friends do. It's like going to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting and thinking everyone in the world is shooting heroin in the vein that runs between your big toe and the toe next to it. No, the entire world is not doing that. Just you and your dumb friends. 

I say this not to be mean. I'm in the same boat. I have many nice comics and one phenomenally nice one. I betting that someone in 25 years just might be interested in the phenomenally nice one, the others, not so much. 

The talk here is 95% what something is worth or what something will be worth. The other 5%, unfortunately, is if something is a good read. Tells it all right there, doesn't it?

Pull your head out of your long boxes and look around.

Not even the Chinese can save this hobby.

And BTW,  if you think variants are a smart buy, you're unreachable. But please keep buying them, cause I think it's kinda funny and makes me laugh.

AND another BTW, before some one blathers but that's what I like to collect so that's what important! (variants, 9.8s in plastic, can it be a 9.9 with a press? MCU movies on streaming whatever) Again, no duh! Enjoy away. That's what life is about but know this: No one in the future will want them. And it will be a hassle for someone to deal with once you're dead, just like your Grandma's little QVC Home Shopping Club POS collectables. Heck, even your Dad's stamp/coin collection. But! But! But that upside down airmail stamp is still worth a lot of money. Yes! And the others?

Are there even that many of us here? 

 

 

 

I unfortunately agree with this.

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4 hours ago, NoMan said:

I don't see it. Don't see any or it.

Kids today don't collect comics. They don't care. Of course your wonderful children and their friend or two love to read and they know ASM 129 from Rom 1 to IH 181 to what-the-heck ever, however, the majority of young people today want and do stare at screens all day. They don't read anything tangible nor do they care to hence no nostalgic factor for a comic book. That means in 20 - 25 years mostly no one is gonna want your precious collection entombed in plastic. 

I don't care how well the MCU movies are doing now. (When I get really bored I go to movie section of the boards and see people arguing about grosses and have to laugh. You guys got points in these films or something?) The majority of of kids (and adults, sadly) would watch a monkey throw its waste matter discharged from its bowels on a wall if that's what was playing at the multiplex. I've worked in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles for 30 years and that's how the head honchos talk about you, Dear MCU Fanatics. I KNOW YOUR CHILDREN ARE SPECIAL AND LIKE TO READ AND WANT QUALITY ENTERTAINMENT. AND THEIR FRIENDS! I'm simply talking about the majority of young people. A couple of smart kids brought up by a couple of smart folks here can't support this hobby. 

I don't care how many people flood conventions. It's all dress up. Most cosplay girls look like harlots off to the strip club and get mad when the guys look at 'em. The guys, hell, I don't know what their deal is. It's creative and at least people aren't shooting each other, so it's all good. The point is the comic back issue folks are shoved off to a tiny corner. Why? Because selling comic books IS NOT THE DRAW like it used to be because the majority of people aren't buying. Duh! 

Some of you here see back issue market booming cause that's all you know. It's what all your friends do. It's like going to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting and thinking everyone in the world is shooting heroin in the vein that runs between your big toe and the toe next to it. No, the entire world is not doing that. Just you and your dumb friends. 

I say this not to be mean. I'm in the same boat. I have many nice comics and one phenomenally nice one. I betting that someone in 25 years just might be interested in the phenomenally nice one, the others, not so much. 

The talk here is 95% what something is worth or what something will be worth. The other 5%, unfortunately, is if something is a good read. Tells it all right there, doesn't it?

Pull your head out of your long boxes and look around.

Not even the Chinese can save this hobby.

And BTW,  if you think variants are a smart buy, you're unreachable. But please keep buying them, cause I think it's kinda funny and makes me laugh.

AND another BTW, before some one blathers but that's what I like to collect so that's what important! (variants, 9.8s in plastic, can it be a 9.9 with a press? MCU movies on streaming whatever) Again, no duh! Enjoy away. That's what life is about but know this: No one in the future will want them. And it will be a hassle for someone to deal with once you're dead, just like your Grandma's little QVC Home Shopping Club POS collectables. Heck, even your Dad's stamp/coin collection. But! But! But that upside down airmail stamp is still worth a lot of money. Yes! And the others?

Are there even that many of us here? 

 

 

 

+1

Thanks for putting it better than I could.

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8 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Does this "new class of comic 101" collectors really exist?  Another local store just closed in SF.  Most comic stores I walk into are more book shops than back issue shops.  And I read many posts about folks "stocking up" on hot issues like IH 181.  So is the market for this book at starting prices of what? $1,500 in 3.0? really made up of the "new class of comic 101" collectors, or is it longer term collectors/speculators?  I ask this question seriously, because I just do not know.  Dealers on this site should know and I'm curious what they have to say.  

I think the new "collector" grew up collecting in the age of ebay and internet sales. They arent interested in local comic shops that 19 times out of 20 has no back issues (or no back issues more than a few years old). The new collector buys on auction sites or maybe conventions (though they also grew up with conventions being less comics and more entertainment)

 

all thats is to say I wouldnt equate shop closings to the state of collecting...

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37 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

 

all thats is to say I wouldnt equate shop closings to the state of collecting...

Hard to divorce the two, given that comics are a tangible paper medium and if kids aren't going to shops they aren't being exposed to a wide range of comics (or experiencing the delight of buying a new no. 1 they did not expect).  It takes a lot more effort to learn what's out there by looking on-line than it does from glancing at shelves.  Plus, folks who are that on-line oriented are more likely to choose "digital comics" and resist being weighed down with tangible comics that require space and preservation.

So, yeah, I see shop closing as a bad sign for the state of collecting.  Just like I see an emphasis on collecting "keys" as a bad sign for the state of collecting.  They both indicate that the focus has shifted from a passion for stories and characters, which drive collectors to seek broad arrays of comics, to a passion to own something that will appreciate in value, which drives collectors to pursue "hot" issues (and risks that they end up holding the "hot potatoe").

Personally, I think that the fact that the overall comic collecting demographic is getting older is already reflected in the stagnant or declining market in a wide array of formerly desirable GA comics.  People seem to think that the health of a collectibles market should be evaluated by the increasing prices of "big ticket items."  That actually is the opposite of the reality.

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5 hours ago, comicwiz said:

 the common characteristic everyone shares in the Facebook and Instagram sharing culture is this appetite to gain kinship by seeking out the handful of keys everyone thinks you need to own to be taken seriously as a collector. 

Back in the old days, the common characteristic was the kinship gained as a result of a shared passion for characters, stories, and artists.  Some of the most serious collectors did not let others know what "trophy books" they had or what was on their want list.  You still see that with some of the old school guys with the best collections around.  There was a lot less boasting back then, but everyone bonded over discussions of characters, stories and characters. 

Sadly, I think the comic collecting community wanted to see prices rise to gain legitimacy for the hobby, and there was both serious market making and shenanigans engaged in to make sure that happened, but the end result was "too much of a good thing."

Edited by sfcityduck
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13 hours ago, Jaylam said:

I know this has been debated ad nauseum, but give me this last page of Hulk #180 over the official 1st full appearance in #181 any day. How #180 isn't valued higher than it is (about 1/5th the value of Hulk #181 in general) is beyond me. This is the strongest so called " first appearance cameo" ever. I mean sheesh; large panel and whole body shot. Doesn't get much better than that for a "first appearance".

HULK180018_col.jpg

Also, pretty much copied directly by Herb Trimpe from John Romita’s actual design sketch, with very, very minor alterations.

Quite definitive.

 

 

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On 3/14/2019 at 12:01 PM, NoMan said:

I don't see it. Don't see any or it.

Kids today don't collect comics. They don't care. Of course your wonderful children and their friend or two love to read and they know ASM 129 from Rom 1 to IH 181 to what-the-heck ever, however, the majority of young people today want and do stare at screens all day. They don't read anything tangible nor do they care to hence no nostalgic factor for a comic book. That means in 20 - 25 years mostly no one is gonna want your precious collection entombed in plastic. 

I don't care how well the MCU movies are doing now. (When I get really bored I go to movie section of the boards and see people arguing about grosses and have to laugh. You guys got points in these films or something?) The majority of of kids (and adults, sadly) would watch a monkey throw its waste matter discharged from its bowels on a wall if that's what was playing at the multiplex. I've worked in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles for 30 years and that's how the head honchos talk about you, Dear MCU Fanatics. I KNOW YOUR CHILDREN ARE SPECIAL AND LIKE TO READ AND WANT QUALITY ENTERTAINMENT. AND THEIR FRIENDS! I'm simply talking about the majority of young people. A couple of smart kids brought up by a couple of smart folks here can't support this hobby. 

I don't care how many people flood conventions. It's all dress up. Most cosplay girls look like harlots off to the strip club and get mad when the guys look at 'em. The guys, hell, I don't know what their deal is. It's creative and at least people aren't shooting each other, so it's all good. The point is the comic back issue folks are shoved off to a tiny corner. Why? Because selling comic books IS NOT THE DRAW like it used to be because the majority of people aren't buying. Duh! 

Some of you here see back issue market booming cause that's all you know. It's what all your friends do. It's like going to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting and thinking everyone in the world is shooting heroin in the vein that runs between your big toe and the toe next to it. No, the entire world is not doing that. Just you and your dumb friends. 

I say this not to be mean. I'm in the same boat. I have many nice comics and one phenomenally nice one. I betting that someone in 25 years just might be interested in the phenomenally nice one, the others, not so much. 

The talk here is 95% what something is worth or what something will be worth. The other 5%, unfortunately, is if something is a good read. Tells it all right there, doesn't it?

Pull your head out of your long boxes and look around.

Not even the Chinese can save this hobby.

And BTW,  if you think variants are a smart buy, you're unreachable. But please keep buying them, cause I think it's kinda funny and makes me laugh.

AND another BTW, before some one blathers but that's what I like to collect so that's what important! (variants, 9.8s in plastic, can it be a 9.9 with a press? MCU movies on streaming whatever) Again, no duh! Enjoy away. That's what life is about but know this: No one in the future will want them. And it will be a hassle for someone to deal with once you're dead, just like your Grandma's little QVC Home Shopping Club POS collectables. Heck, even your Dad's stamp/coin collection. But! But! But that upside down airmail stamp is still worth a lot of money. Yes! And the others?

Are there even that many of us here? 

 

 

 

Sad but probably true. :/

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On 3/14/2019 at 3:01 PM, NoMan said:

I don't see it. Don't see any or it.

Kids today don't collect comics. They don't care. Of course your wonderful children and their friend or two love to read and they know ASM 129 from Rom 1 to IH 181 to what-the-heck ever, however, the majority of young people today want and do stare at screens all day. They don't read anything tangible nor do they care to hence no nostalgic factor for a comic book. That means in 20 - 25 years mostly no one is gonna want your precious collection entombed in plastic. 

I don't care how well the MCU movies are doing now. (When I get really bored I go to movie section of the boards and see people arguing about grosses and have to laugh. You guys got points in these films or something?) The majority of of kids (and adults, sadly) would watch a monkey throw its waste matter discharged from its bowels on a wall if that's what was playing at the multiplex. I've worked in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles for 30 years and that's how the head honchos talk about you, Dear MCU Fanatics. I KNOW YOUR CHILDREN ARE SPECIAL AND LIKE TO READ AND WANT QUALITY ENTERTAINMENT. AND THEIR FRIENDS! I'm simply talking about the majority of young people. A couple of smart kids brought up by a couple of smart folks here can't support this hobby. 

I don't care how many people flood conventions. It's all dress up. Most cosplay girls look like harlots off to the strip club and get mad when the guys look at 'em. The guys, hell, I don't know what their deal is. It's creative and at least people aren't shooting each other, so it's all good. The point is the comic back issue folks are shoved off to a tiny corner. Why? Because selling comic books IS NOT THE DRAW like it used to be because the majority of people aren't buying. Duh! 

Some of you here see back issue market booming cause that's all you know. It's what all your friends do. It's like going to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting and thinking everyone in the world is shooting heroin in the vein that runs between your big toe and the toe next to it. No, the entire world is not doing that. Just you and your dumb friends. 

I say this not to be mean. I'm in the same boat. I have many nice comics and one phenomenally nice one. I betting that someone in 25 years just might be interested in the phenomenally nice one, the others, not so much. 

The talk here is 95% what something is worth or what something will be worth. The other 5%, unfortunately, is if something is a good read. Tells it all right there, doesn't it?

Pull your head out of your long boxes and look around.

Not even the Chinese can save this hobby.

And BTW,  if you think variants are a smart buy, you're unreachable. But please keep buying them, cause I think it's kinda funny and makes me laugh.

AND another BTW, before some one blathers but that's what I like to collect so that's what important! (variants, 9.8s in plastic, can it be a 9.9 with a press? MCU movies on streaming whatever) Again, no duh! Enjoy away. That's what life is about but know this: No one in the future will want them. And it will be a hassle for someone to deal with once you're dead, just like your Grandma's little QVC Home Shopping Club POS collectables. Heck, even your Dad's stamp/coin collection. But! But! But that upside down airmail stamp is still worth a lot of money. Yes! And the others?

Are there even that many of us here? 

 

 

 

very well expressed

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On 3/14/2019 at 12:01 PM, NoMan said:

thinking everyone in the world is shooting heroin in the vein that runs between your big toe and the toe next to it.

You got a way with words bruh.  Marvel should hire you immediately!!  Not joking.

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1 minute ago, SuperBird said:

Very well said. 

I read basically the same thing on these boards 2 years ago, before most collectible comics went on to double. 
I read it on these boards 5 years ago. 
10 years ago. 
15 years ago. 

Back then AF15 was a $1,000 book in unrestored 2.0 

Personally i agree.  There will always be collectors of comics.  Sure the majority of kids or people arent interested in comics.  But they never have been.  When I was a kid I never met another kid that read comics.  I started in 1967.  In 12th grade I finally met one guy.  As a 10 year old, I kinda thought I was the only kid reading comics.

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36 minutes ago, SuperBird said:

Very well said. 

I read basically the same thing on these boards 2 years ago, before most collectible comics went on to double. 
I read it on these boards 5 years ago. 
10 years ago. 
15 years ago. 

Back then AF15 was a $1,000 book in unrestored 2.0 

agreed, thats my point at the fallacy of IH181 being "over priced", its exactly where the market wants it. You can make any "get off my lawn" argument you want. The market is currently supporting the price no matter if you think the hobby is going down the drain. Maybe parts of the hobby are (looking at you direct market!), but the high end collectible side of things for comic is not.

I'll let people go back to talking about the "kids these days"

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1 hour ago, miraclemet said:

agreed, thats my point at the fallacy of IH181 being "over priced", its exactly where the market wants it. You can make any "get off my lawn" argument you want. The market is currently supporting the price no matter if you think the hobby is going down the drain. Maybe parts of the hobby are (looking at you direct market!), but the high end collectible side of things for comic is not.

I'll let people go back to talking about the "kids these days"

I believe I made that point, agreeing with you. And the other billions and billions of comics? Many thousands and thousands entombed in plastic with the numbers "9.8" in the left corner.

Edited by NoMan
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