Staple Replacement is Conservation?
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The book in question (not mine)

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Label says "conservation includes: staples replaced. 3rd-7th wrap married”

Now I'll buy staple replacement as conservation if the staples were rusty, but comsidering the 3rd-7th wrap marriage (Im guessing one of those wraps was the MVS and they replaced the cut page with an intact and included mutiple pages in the marriage to try and make it look original) Im assuming the staple replacement occured at the time of marriage either intentionally, or they werent very good at working with the staples and one or both broke when bending.

So how does CGC know that the staple replacement was due to conservation? Especially if they dont know the state of the original staples? 

A tear seal still shows the tear so you know what was being conserved, rhis just strikes me as a shoddy attempt at marriage, which is not conservation.

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Posted (edited)

You say at the end "marriage, which is not conservation".  If you look at the CGC restoration grading criteria (https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/4084/) it shows various levels of page marrying and which Conserved grades they would get, so I think your premise is not correct.  I'd say they're saying "it's restored" and then listing what exactly was done, which in this case includes both the staple issue and the page marrying.

Edited by dporges
Extra period..

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49 minutes ago, dporges said:

You say at the end "marriage, which is not conservation".  If you look at the CGC restoration grading criteria (https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/4084/) it shows various levels of page marrying and which Conserved grades they would get, so I think your premise is not correct.  I'd say they're saying "it's restored" and then listing what exactly was done, which in this case includes both the staple issue and the page marrying..

I think you're correct. My question would be this: If it's restored, why did it then receive a green Qualified label.. ?  

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Aw man, now we need a green label with a silver strip to denote Qualified - Conserved

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21 hours ago, miraclemet said:

 

Now I'll buy staple replacement as conservation if the staples were rusty...

Why else would someone replace the staples? 

Staples replacement is done to conserve the structural integrity of the book. That's why it's considered to be conservation. 

The book got a green label thanks to the married pages. 

It would have gotten a grey conservation label otherwise. 

There is no green/grey label, so they simply noted the conservation in the label notes. 

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2 minutes ago, newshane said:

Why else would someone replace the staples? 

Staples replacement is done to conserve the structural integrity of the book. That's why it's considered to be conservation. 

The book got a green label thanks to the married pages. 

It would have gotten a grey conservation label otherwise. 

There is no green/grey label, so they simply noted the conservation in the label notes. 

As I said in my post, the combination of replacing staples and marrying of pages makes me wonder if the original staples were damaged during the marrying process by someone not experienced working with staple (like they bent them to free the old pages and insert the new ones and in the process of bending one of them broke from the bending stress, so they put on a replacement staple, and then replaced the other staple too so that they "matched") 

 

Im assuming a level of intent towards deception since Im betting they swapped out multiple pages to replace the MVS page with one that didnt have the MVS cut out but was from a lower grade book)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, newshane said:

Why else would someone replace the staples? 

Staples replacement is done to conserve the structural integrity of the book. That's why it's considered to be conservation. 

The book got a green label thanks to the married pages. 

It would have gotten a grey conservation label otherwise. 

There is no green/grey label, so they simply noted the conservation in the label notes. 

Mystery solved. Excellent...most excellent. On to the next Frankenbook!  

 

Edited by The Lions Den

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1 hour ago, miraclemet said:

As I said in my post, the combination of replacing staples and marrying of pages makes me wonder if the original staples were damaged during the marrying process by someone not experienced working with staple (like they bent them to free the old pages and insert the new ones and in the process of bending one of them broke from the bending stress, so they put on a replacement staple, and then replaced the other staple too so that they "matched") 

 

Im assuming a level of intent towards deception since Im betting they swapped out multiple pages to replace the MVS page with one that didnt have the MVS cut out but was from a lower grade book)

This is a possibility, but I believe the CGC judges based on physical evidence instead of intent. It's just too hard to prove the intent of the original owner, or to prove that the staples were damaged during the marrying process. Since this is a bronze age book, it's unlikely (but still possible) that the staples were rusted. So, I believe you are correct in your theory...but once again, they probably graded it "as is" without too much speculation as to why the staples were replaced. Honestly, I'm glad they are in the business of using evidence instead of evaluating the intentions of the person doing the work. That's a slippery slope. 

All I know is that staple replacement is considered conservation. 

I will agree that this is a rather "wild" label we are working with here, but it makes sense to me. 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, newshane said:

So, I believe you are correct in your theory...but once again, they probably graded it "as is" without too much speculation as to why the staples were replaced.

I mean no disrespect here, as you've done a great job of solving this perplexing mystery, but based on my experience, books like this one actually can be the root cause of sleepless nights for CGC graders, staring up into the darkness and wondering: "Why? Why? WHY???"  

Edited by The Lions Den

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3 hours ago, newshane said:

This is a possibility, but I believe the CGC judges based on physical evidence instead of intent. It's just too hard to prove the intent of the original owner, or to prove that the staples were damaged during the marrying process. Since this is a bronze age book, it's unlikely (but still possible) that the staples were rusted. So, I believe you are correct in your theory...but once again, they probably graded it "as is" without too much speculation as to why the staples were replaced. Honestly, I'm glad they are in the business of using evidence instead of evaluating the intentions of the person doing the work. That's a slippery slope. 

All I know is that staple replacement is considered conservation. 

I will agree that this is a rather "wild" label we are working with here, but it makes sense to me. 

agreed cgc cant be in the business of speculation... the only thing i could think would be the lack of rust migration around the staple area means no rust on staples..... so no conservation. but thats not a sure thing i know....

as you say... an interesting label to think about

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I will hi-jack this thread for a similar question: should a staple addition (where there was no staple before) be a Qualified grade?  I have a cross-over submission book that was universal by CBCS standards come back as CGC Qualified.  I will post some pictures when the book returns to me in a few days...

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