First full appearance of The Supreme Intelligence? 0

[The Heckler]

I keep seeing people claiming on EBay that captain marvel 16 is the first appearance of the supreme intelligence. Most sources I see have FF 65 pegged as his first. After looking both books up, perhaps people are considering FF65 a cameo since S.I. only appears in one panel?  (although he does have several word balloons.) CM 16 has SI featured on the cover as well as 4-5 panels and it has way more impact on the storyline.  CGC doesn’t name either book as a first on its labels, so what do you guys think? 

(I will provide screens of both issues for those of you that haven’t seen them)

[The Heckler]

And here is CM16 

[PeterPark]

FF 65

[The Heckler]

Hmmmm. How is this case different from FF 67/Thor 165 pertaining to Warlocks first? FF 67 came out two years earlier and has 3 or 4 panels featuring warlock as well as a partial origin, yet  Thor 165 gets the CGC Label as the first full appearance. Confusing.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

FF 65. You can decide whether that appearance is significant enough for that to be the desirable book for a collection, but that's the first appearance.

[The Heckler]

I have multiples of both books. I guess for me, I would view the first appearance with one panel (FF 65)  a cameo and first full with CM 16 because of the established precedent on these type of things. IH 180/181, FF67/Thor 165, et al. After watching Captain Marvel, It’s apparent we haven’t seen the last of the supreme intelligence. I wonder what CGC will decide when they finally start labeling theses issues. 

[jcjames]

Aren't both of these Silver Age books?  

Anyway, everyone has their own idea of what a "cameo" and "1st Appearance" and "1st Full Appearance" mean, and sometimes it seems to make no sense. And then there's the market valuation of these which,again, is also quite irrational at times.

Personally, I'd say FF65 is the "1st Appearance".

For me, a "1st Appearance" of a character should include:

1) Clearly identifiable image of the character,

2. Name of the character,

3) Interaction of the character within the storyline that progresses the story other than to just announce the existence of the character. (the number of panels doesn't matter)

 

A "Cameo Appearance" would be an image of the character (maybe standing in the background) named or unnamed, and can also include the character briefly speaking (maybe saying "Look out - I'm Captain Cameo!") but not really progressing the story (other than to introduce the character). A "Cameo Appearance" would also then be followed by some later issue showing the "1st Full Appearance" where the above three criteria would be met.

Following that, FF65 would be "1st Appearance" of SI.

 

YMMV.

 

 

 

[___]

FF65 all the way. When there is a long standing period in-between it comes into play as well. FF65 is a double key anyways and higher to find in high grade (most people aren't going to slab that CM book unless superior condition, not worth the time or money)

[Callaway29]

FF65 has caught fire, especially in high grade.