Disney+'s WandaVision (2020) 6 6

[AJLewandoski]

So my question to all who care is what do we think Herb was going to say when Agnes kept interrupting? "We are all..."? I've seen two schools of thought on the matter. So far the easiest and probably most likely is "We are all trapped." but the other option I've seen thrown around is "We are all dead." which would be a decidedly more dark and interesting plot. 

[bpc3qh]

8 minutes ago, AJLewandoski said:

So my question to all who care is what do we think Herb was going to say when Agnes kept interrupting? "We are all..."? I've seen two schools of thought on the matter. So far the easiest and probably most likely is "We are all trapped." but the other option I've seen thrown around is "We are all dead." which would be a decidedly more dark and interesting plot. 

Them being dead wouldn't explain how Monica was jettisoned back into reality, so I lean towards them being trapped.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, AJLewandoski said:

So my question to all who care is what do we think Herb was going to say when Agnes kept interrupting? "We are all..."? I've seen two schools of thought on the matter. So far the easiest and probably most likely is "We are all trapped." but the other option I've seen thrown around is "We are all dead." which would be a decidedly more dark and interesting plot. 

Maybe Wanda and the Westview residents, always the same people, are there because they are all part of a heroic SWORD mission, perhaps involving Vision's remains (both body and memory)? And maybe in the course of said mission, they all become trapped via someone/something manipulating Wanda's power?

[@therealsilvermane]

Episode 3 is the best episode so far. The dialogue is sharper, the action more compelling, the suspense more suspenseful. I'm encouraged that this episode's writer is the lead writer on Captain Marvel 2.

[Zonker]

What if this originally was Wanda's / SWORD's attempt to re-boot the Vision, and somewhere along the line that project went badly out of bounds, either because of outside interference, or because Wanda lost control of her powers?  As of episode 3 this Vision doesn't appear to be simply an imaginary construct, otherwise Herb wouldn't be tempted to spill the beans, and Agnes wouldn't be (briefly) conflicted about taking Vision into their confidence.

"We're all...

Working for SWORD to try to bring you back!"

[Bird]

15 minutes ago, Zonker said:

What if this originally was Wanda's / SWORD's attempt to re-boot the Vision, and somewhere along the line that project went badly out of bounds, either because of outside interference, or because Wanda lost control of her powers?  As of episode 3 this Vision doesn't appear to be simply an imaginary construct, otherwise Herb wouldn't be tempted to spill the beans, and Agnes wouldn't be (briefly) conflicted about taking Vision into their confidence.

"We're all...

Working for SWORD to try to bring you back!"

In the middle of the episode last night I also thought that the series is Wanda's attempt to teach a new Vision about life or something to that effect. Somehow she was attempting to get Vision back and it went awry. It doesn't make too much sense this morning but maybe this is an attempt at Vision without Ultron's influence.

[Bosco685]

47 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Episode 3 is the best episode so far. The dialogue is sharper, the action more compelling, the suspense more suspenseful. I'm encouraged that this episode's writer is the lead writer on Captain Marvel 2.

Calm down there, MCU Speedy. 'Action more compelling' would be Vision shooting the doctor to his house and Wanda launching Monica out of her current virtual world.

Let this ease into the real action without any hype.

[Juno Beach]

2 hours ago, AJLewandoski said:

So my question to all who care is what do we think Herb was going to say when Agnes kept interrupting? "We are all..."? I've seen two schools of thought on the matter. So far the easiest and probably most likely is "We are all trapped." but the other option I've seen thrown around is "We are all dead." which would be a decidedly more dark and interesting plot. 

They were also trying to warn him about Monica, who seems to work for SWORD. 

[AJLewandoski]

2 hours ago, bpc3qh said:

Them being dead wouldn't explain how Monica was jettisoned back into reality, so I lean towards them being trapped.

Oh yea I'm of the mindset that theyre all trapped just thought I'd throw in the conspiracy. If I'm going to play devils advocate (pun intended) I'm not saying Wanda is dead I'm saying her reality warping led to bringing the dead citizens of Westview back along with the previously dead Vision. Monica is the outlier here because she came in from outside, thats why Herb and Agnes explicitly say she has no home here. If for example this were a genuine community there would probably be somewhere for her to live, but say this is perhaps a cemetery where a live person would have nowhere to go...

[Bosco685]

2 hours ago, AJLewandoski said:

So my question to all who care is what do we think Herb was going to say when Agnes kept interrupting? "We are all..."? I've seen two schools of thought on the matter. So far the easiest and probably most likely is "We are all trapped." but the other option I've seen thrown around is "We are all dead." which would be a decidedly more dark and interesting plot. 

 

19 minutes ago, Juno Beach said:

They were also trying to warn him about Monica, who seems to work for SWORD. 

And when Herb says "Catch you on the flip side' something so casually stated makes you wonder if there was some hidden meaning even with that line.

[the blob]

6 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Yup. Other than Agnes and Herb. 

They might not know 100% either based on the previews from some of the future scenes (and herb glitching out with the wall)

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, the blob said:

They might not know 100% either based on the previews from some of the future scenes (and herb glitching out with the wall)

Gonna watch it again now. Nothing else hot released right now.

[the blob]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Fancasting. But that would be one hell of a way to introduce some of the X-Men franchise characters.

vigo looks right for old, but not ancient, magneto (the one we enjoyed in the 80s and early 90s), of course, if we are present day, magneto would be early 80s, so sir Ian is actually the right age (I guess he was always the right age in the movies as a concentration camp child as he was born in 1939)... then again, why would the master of magnetism age like the rest of us?

 

[the blob]

3 hours ago, Old_Man_Adam said:

That would be fantastic , just saw episode 3 ( where they touch on Pietro) so that doesn’t seem entirely out of the realm of possible ... plus with the X-men’s version of quicksilver over ( playing a superior performance IMO by Evan Peters) 

this is easily my favorite episode so far as we finally get a real glimpse of what’s behind the curtain .... 

alas, if they pop him into the show as some sort of multiverse merging event we probably would have known... then again, mando kept luke a secret all this time, so disney is capable

 

[the blob]

6 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Gonna watch it again now. Nothing else hot released right now.

I think they all have an idea that something isn't quite right, some more than others. Agnes/Agatha probably knows the most as she is a 400 year old witch. Dottie as Clea might be pushing it too far as the Sorceres Supreme should know this stuff (and who/how/why would she have been sucked out of the dark dimension to be cast in Wanda's fantasy anyway?) I will take their word for it that Mephisto sometimes goes by Ralph in the comics (a reference to Ralph Macchio probably)

[@therealsilvermane]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Calm down there, MCU Speedy. 'Action more compelling' would be Vision shooting the doctor to his house and Wanda launching Monica out of her current virtual world.

Let this ease into the real action without any hype.

When I say "action," I actually mean the everyday "normal world" actions Vision and Wanda take to seem "normal" and "fit in" in their TV Land. Episode 1 was Vision and Wanda trying to make dinner for the boss, Episode 2 was Vision and Wanda participating in the all-important talent show. Episode 3 is Vision and Wanda dealing with her sudden pregnancy and Wanda trying to hide her pregnancy from Monica/Geraldine. I found this action more compelling, even though we know there's a bigger umbrella concern playing out over several episodes, not unlike the past MCU movies ending with a little more Thanos and Infinity Stone bits.

Edited January 23, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

18 minutes ago, the blob said:

I think they all have an idea that something isn't quite right, some more than others. Agnes/Agatha probably knows the most as she is a 400 year old witch. Dottie as Clea might be pushing it too far as the Sorceres Supreme should know this stuff (and who/how/why would she have been sucked out of the dark dimension to be cast in Wanda's fantasy anyway?) I will take their word for it that Mephisto sometimes goes by Ralph in the comics (a reference to Ralph Macchio probably)

Finished! There was added action - Vision timing himself how fast he could change a diaper. My bad! 

I put it on CC so I could catch every word they allowed. It does come across Herb and Agnes know a lot more of what is going on. As far as Herb's origin, I think that future villain that has been cast already is going to be introduced in this show via this alternate persona in Wanda's virtual world. I posted an article in spoilers with an article outlining who they think it is - and especially with that 'Herb' name.

That Vision blip in the episode is interesting.

[Bosco685]

'Hydra Soak - Find The Goddess Within' 

[fmaz]

Ok this might sound a bit nuts....and I haven’t figured if I think this was the original REASON behind the “town” or just is going to be a byproduct of Wanda’s takeover/manipulation of it... I feel as if she is purposefully/inadvertantly rebooting Vision’s brain.  Whatever shards were saved by Shuri’s aborted process in Infinity War, something was still there... and perhaps that drove Wanda to an obsession to bring him back by somehow nursing him back to reality... so he could once again exist in reality.  

What I’m saying is, maybe this was the original project but then Wanda just went way off the rails with it and literally lost herself in it.. and people have been trying to pull her back out?  I don’t know... but I do think the END effect will be a formed consciousness of Vision, somehow. 

Probably way off, but that’s what sort of struck me last night.

 

[Bosco685]

It's all theory at this point, so I guess not as full of spoilers.

 

Spoiler

Quote

When I began hypothesizing about what director Matt Shakman was attempting to achieve with the sitcom-based episodes of the series, I was inundated with appearances of familiar characters (if only in name or symbols), slick references to relevant story plots from the comics & films, and clues to future events.

 

Mephisto clues were all over the place, but there was another character that I had high expectations of seeing before any trailers were released; the self god himself, HE (High Evolutionary). While the devil has been teased throughout, but never named, Marvel has seen fit to give us “Herb” live and in the flesh. Shown first in the 2020 Disney Investor Day trailer greeting Vision as “Buddy”, Herb presents as a towering nice guy.

 

In watching the first few episodes of WandaVision, we see the easter egg of “Bova’s milk” (referencing a “cow-woman” created by High Evolutionary that nannied the orphaned Wanda & Pietro in the comic books) in the supermarket scene of Episode 2’s intro.

 

 

Next, we see Herb’s cartoon avatar shearing hedges & waving at Vis. We are then introduced to his character at the head of the (round)table, leading in what would be the neighborhood (k)nightwatch formed by “a members only” group of (new) men from Westview. As Vision crashes the meeting, which is really a brunch, he convinces the group that although he is weird, he is a good guy. (I will double back to all of these clues later and show how it’s connected, so please be patient).

 

When the fellas in the group laugh off their apprehensions and gossip, Herb offers Vision a stick of Big Red gum. Many jumped to the conclusion that was yet another clue for Mephisto, but having manipulated images of Marvel characters for so long, I took that as a double entendre for High Evolutionary as well. (HE has been displayed in various colors as his character has evolved, but he was “Big Red” when he faced off with Galactus after creating the planet Counter-Earth; not to be mistaken for the Counter-Earth created by Mister Fantastic & The Invisible Woman’s son, Franklin Richards).

 

 

Fast forward to the next time we see him at the magic show in WandaVision‘s second episode. Vis chooses Herb (who clarifies his name is Herbert) for the “Is This Your Card” magic trick. Last but not least, although it took Vis flipping through the whole deck, he finally finds Herb’s card: The King Of Spades!

 

All of WandaVision‘s foreshadowing may seem a bit much but Marvel has taken this technique to another level since they have 8 decades of published work from which to draw. Believe it or not, they’re just getting started. Now that we see the easter eggs from Episode 2, let’s go to the comic book origin of High Evolutionary and try to make sense of them all:

 

Born Herbert Edgar Wyndham, this character grew up a genius in Great Britain and very close to his mother. He lived with her into adulthood until she passed away leaving him an inheritance that he used to further his curiosities in Genetics & Evolution; a study very close to the theme I laid out in “Destiny vs. Deviation”.