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Hulk 181- Shaken comic, reholster?
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24 posts in this topic

Hi, I recently got a Hulk 181 6.5, for a fair price from a major comic vendor. Upon receiving it, it seems the comic is not just "shaken" in the mildest sense, it's pretty loose, as the slightest love tap on the top or bottom sends it flying all over the case. The top left corner of the back (as pictured) has been damaged by this in the case, as well as creasing one of the overlapping pages when it flew over the the other side. There's barely any room for the length of the comic in the case, as you can see. The good news for me is, the staples seem unaffected so the cover didn't come loose, and it was clearly this way when I bought it so the damage was already done, rather than occurring through shipping.

It seems like it clearly needs to be reholstered, but I do not want to risk losing the current grade. The comic honestly looks better than a 6.5 to me, but is the slight damage enough to knock it down more than half a point? I would rather leave it and keep it static if CGC would be difficult about helping with this, but it's such a high ticket item that I would hope they would at least offer a free reholster as the problem is self-evident. I will be going to Wondercon later this month and can show it to CGC in person; it was graded in 2013 so hopefully a new case would help. What should I do?

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Edited by brentdevil
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1 minute ago, faster friends said:

Have it pressed before sending back to be graded.

you may get a grade bump.

Would CGC be willing to cover that? I don't really want to pay them to press and reholster and risk a lower grade (or lose the "White Pages"), since the case is technically not secured properly by them.

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4 minutes ago, faster friends said:

You would have to pay for a press and regrade.

even if you reholder it you will have to pay. And the grade may go down with the damage.

you should press and have it graded again.

Do you (or anybody) know under which conditions they cover reholster-ing for extreme shaken cases, or do they never ever re-do a case for free even with obvious fault?

Edited by brentdevil
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Just sell the book if you're not happy with it and buy a new one. There is no clear evidence that the book was damaged inside the case or not, Do you have close up pictures of when you bought the book to see any difference?  The front cover has a slight overhang anyway but still looks centered in the holder. They sell new holders for $15? they don't regrade the book every time someone replaces a holder, if that was the case, we'd all be paying $15 to have pre 1975 books graded instead of $40-$70 

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2 hours ago, Kevin76 said:

Just sell the book if you're not happy with it and buy a new one. There is no clear evidence that the book was damaged inside the case or not, Do you have close up pictures of when you bought the book to see any difference?  The front cover has a slight overhang anyway but still looks centered in the holder. They sell new holders for $15? they don't regrade the book every time someone replaces a holder, if that was the case, we'd all be paying $15 to have pre 1975 books graded instead of $40-$70 

It's flying around inside the case at the slightest tap, creating the damage at the top seen in the pics. I can move it just by shaking it slightly and I don't think it's supposed to do that.

I've heard stories about people getting bumped down half a grade, so I'm not sure if CGC would just re-holster assuming it couldn't possibly be damaged in the case- since it WAS damaged due to not being secured properly.

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8 hours ago, brentdevil said:

It's flying around inside the case at the slightest tap, creating the damage at the top seen in the pics. I can move it just by shaking it slightly and I don't think it's supposed to do that.

I've heard stories about people getting bumped down half a grade, so I'm not sure if CGC would just re-holster assuming it couldn't possibly be damaged in the case- since it WAS damaged due to not being secured properly.

This problem may not have been caused by CGC. It's possible the holder may have been damaged while in someone else's possession, yes? In any event, if the book is "flying around" inside the holder, you should probably get it back to CGC as soon as possible. I wouldn't advise leaving it as is. The problem is, if it's as loose as you describe, you may end up causing more damage if you try to ship it back. It sounds like your best option is to take the book to WonderCon and deliver it to CGC personally. Keep it as stable as possible on the journey there. When you get there, calmly explain to them what's going on and see what they can do. I would suggest having it pressed and then regraded---that would smooth out the damage that's already been done and hopefully get the book back to the original grade of 6.5. The page quality should stay the same, but you never know---that's just a chance you'll have to take. Plead your case and maybe they'll cut you a break on the cost. But for the amount of money this book is worth, it should be given the best possible treatment. That includes a press, regrade, shiny new holder and a night on the town (OK, that last one's for you). Good luck, and may the force be with you...  :wishluck:

Edited by The Lions Den
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3 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

This problem may not have been caused by CGC. It's possible the holder may have been damaged while in someone else's possession, yes? In any event, if the book is "flying around" inside the holder, you should probably get it back to CGC as soon as possible. I wouldn't advise leaving it as is. The problem is, if it's as loose as you describe, you may end up causing more damage if you try to ship it back. It sounds like your best option is to take the book to WonderCon and deliver it to CGC personally. Keep it as stable as possible on the journey there. When you get there, calmly explain to them what's going on and see what they can do. I would suggest having it pressed and then regraded---that would smooth out the damage that's already been done and hopefully get the book back to the original grade of 6.5. The page quality should stay the same, but you never know---that's just a chance you'll have to take. Plead your case and maybe they'll cut you a break on the cost. But for the amount of money this book is worth, it should be given the best possible treatment. That includes a press, regrade, shiny new holder and a night on the town (OK, that last one's for you). Good luck, and may the force be with you...  :wishluck:

Thanks. I'm assuming that CGC evaluates on a case to case basis what they'd be willing to cover. I don't think it's been "damaged" by the previous owner, but I have no idea why it's sliding (slightly, not like flubber or anything) the way it is. Maybe missing the microfilament?

Can anyone tell, based on the pictures, that the mild creasing on the back would or would not be enough to bump it down half a point? Rest of the book honestly looks better than a 6.5, so I'm hoping it's not a case of the value stamp missing or anything :eek:

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15 hours ago, brentdevil said:

Thanks. I'm assuming that CGC evaluates on a case to case basis what they'd be willing to cover. I don't think it's been "damaged" by the previous owner, but I have no idea why it's sliding (slightly, not like flubber or anything) the way it is. Maybe missing the microfilament?

Can anyone tell, based on the pictures, that the mild creasing on the back would or would not be enough to bump it down half a point? Rest of the book honestly looks better than a 6.5, so I'm hoping it's not a case of the value stamp missing or anything :eek:

*sigh*  

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23 hours ago, brentdevil said:

Rest of the book honestly looks better than a 6.5, so I'm hoping it's not a case of the value stamp missing or anything :eek:

You have general wear on the book, and a giant, ugly brown stain at the bottom of the spine.

It looks like an accurately graded 6.5.

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@brentdevil I would reccomend asking CGC to RE-HOLDER your book. You wouldn't want to get into a pistol duel at the show with all the holster talk. :) On a more serious note,  I had a book that was damaged (the bottom of the book was quite bent, non color-breaking and no tears, most bending on the back cover) while in the slab. I owned the book, but the damage was done before I bought it. Keep in mind, the slab was pristine, with no external damage, lending to the proof the the holder itself was not protecting/supporting the book like it should.

This ties right in with 3rd party grading and the integrity of CGC's grading service. Once graded and encapsulated, the book should, under normal conditions and handling,  retain its grade. A book that slides around excessively in the well and causes damage, will not retain the grade, and in a way, nullifies the purpose of grading and encapsulation.

I contacted CGC and they asked that I ship the book to them ASAP. The agent working on my claim hand carried the book in for a quick press, to repair and mitigate the damage. She then, hand delivered the book to the graders for a "review", to ensure the book retained its grade. (Even in this scenario, there was a chance that it could have dropped if there was damage that warranted a reduction.) Fortunately,  the book retained the original 9.6 grade. It was reholdered in the newest slab design at the time and sent back to me. All of this was done for me at no cost and in only a few days. 

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13 minutes ago, Supa-Bad-Mofo said:

@brentdevil I would reccomend asking CGC to RE-HOLDER your book. You wouldn't want to get into a pistol duel at the show with all the holster talk. :) On a more serious note,  I had a book that was damaged (the bottom of the book was quite bent, non color-breaking and no tears, most bending on the back cover) while in the slab. I owned the book, but the damage was done before I bought it. Keep in mind, the slab was pristine, with no external damage, lending to the proof the the holder itself was not protecting/supporting the book like it should.

This ties right in with 3rd party grading and the integrity of CGC's grading service. Once graded and encapsulated, the book should, under normal conditions and handling,  retain its grade. A book that slides around excessively in the well and causes damage, will not retain the grade, and in a way, nullifies the purpose of grading and encapsulation.

I contacted CGC and they asked that I ship the book to them ASAP. The agent working on my claim hand carried the book in for a quick press, to repair and mitigate the damage. She then, hand delivered the book to the graders for a "review", to ensure the book retained its grade. (Even in this scenario, there was a chance that it could have dropped if there was damage that warranted a reduction.) Fortunately,  the book retained the original 9.6 grade. It was reholdered in the newest slab design at the time and sent back to me. All of this was done for me at no cost and in only a few days. 

Thanks- I take it you're saying you weren't the original owner. How did you get in touch with them to make an official claim? I called but was at the whims of the one person I talked to, who wasn't exactly encouraging me to "Bring it in, we'll take care of it." He basically didn't want to advise me what to do at all, which was the worst answer.

I'm going to be at Wondercon this weekend, but don't want to bring it if they'll just play dumb and I'll have to flip a coin as whether to pay to press or not. Advice on how to proceed, based on the pics etc, would be appreciated. TBH I don't know if a simple reholdering is even possible, as it's slipping in the inner well, and my impression is they just transfer the inner well without adjustment in these cases.

Edited by brentdevil
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@brentdevilI'd take it to them and see what they say. You can't go wrong. If they do it for free, perfect.  If not, you can decide what you want to do. (Personally, I would at least reholder it without a press. There's too much value there not to do it. Whether or not you want to press and regrade is another story...there are risks there.) FYI, when reholdering (whether you pay, or they do it because of an issue like you're having), they will remove the book from the existing holder and inner well. They remove and replace the microchamber paper they put inside the books (this is used to mitigate further deterioration of the book from the natural decomposition of the paper and ink)  and then place the book in a new well and current holder. 

The book I had issues with had similar bending, but was at a higher grade. I would bet that with the small amount of bending and the grade of your book, they wouldn't even think twice about reholering at the current grade...no questions asked. I would just ask them. They are pretty reasonable and tend to stand by their products. 

You'll have to prepare to be separated from your book for a while. It'll take some time to get it pressed and/or reholdered and/or regraded.

Edited by Supa-Bad-Mofo
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On 3/26/2019 at 9:52 PM, Supa-Bad-Mofo said:

@brentdevilI'd take it to them and see what they say. You can't go wrong. If they do it for free, perfect.  If not, you can decide what you want to do. (Personally, I would at least reholder it without a press. There's too much value there not to do it. Whether or not you want to press and regrade is another story...there are risks there.) FYI, when reholdering (whether you pay, or they do it because of an issue like you're having), they will remove the book from the existing holder and inner well. They remove and replace the microchamber paper they put inside the books (this is used to mitigate further deterioration of the book from the natural decomposition of the paper and ink)  and then place the book in a new well and current holder. 

The book I had issues with had similar bending, but was at a higher grade. I would bet that with the small amount of bending and the grade of your book, they wouldn't even think twice about reholering at the current grade...no questions asked. I would just ask them. They are pretty reasonable and tend to stand by their products. 

You'll have to prepare to be separated from your book for a while. It'll take some time to get it pressed and/or reholdered and/or regraded.

I went to Wondercon and they took care of it, I guess I explained it sufficiently. I hope it made it clear that I want them to just do whatever they think is necessary (rather than re-use the inner well or downgrade it), but they didn't charge me a fee so I can't complain. Thanks to everyone for their input.

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AFAIK, CGC only "covers re-holder" when they graded your comic and it is delivered from them. They don't re-holder books that were graded 5 years ago and recently sold.

I would re-holder it just because I hate the gray text of the old stickers/labels.

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