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Top 10 most Influential and Historically Important GA Books
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138 posts in this topic

32 minutes ago, Dr. Love said:

Indeed.  While not worthy of the Top 10, it should be noted that romance provided the "bridge loan" to the industry it so desperately needed.  Not by shifting readership from one genre to another, but by bringing in a huge untapped demographic until those numbers could be replicated by young males once again.

That is why it may belong in a non-character centric top 10.  It was a more important genre than many.

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42 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I am going to look at this question in a different way. I am going to look at it as what if a modern comic book collector today started to look for the most important and historical comics?

In other words somebody who just started to collect GA comics. What would someone who is new at collecting GA comics and a different perspective think? Someone who doesn't really know all the great history. I think they would seek out this top ten list far more than not.

1. Detective Comics #27 (the holy grail for the new modern GA collector).

2. Captain America #1( The heart and soul of the Marvel movies. The Legend ).

3. Action #1 (Nuff said)!

4. All Star #8 (the more popular than ever Wonder Woman first appearance).

5. Batman #1 (First Joker who is considered ultra hip with modern crowd not to mention Catwoman`s first appearance).

6. Pep #22 (First Archie the mega star of the hit Riverdale series).

7. More Fun #73( the dynamic debuts of TV/MOVIE hits Green Arrow and Aquaman).

8. Whiz #2( Shazam the first appearance).

9. Marvel Comics #1(where it all started)

10. Detective # 38 (first Robin).

:fear:

 

You are just making a list of presently popular characters first appearance.  Any “colllector” who thinks CA 1 is more historically important and influential than Action 1 Probably needs to study up.  So while I think your approach is creative, I do not find it persuasive.

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50 minutes ago, adamstrange said:

Mjr Nicholson lost his company because he couldn't make a go of things when paying $5 a page for art.

Mickey Mouse Magazine folded after two or three attempts in 1930s.

This is the newsstand when Action 1 appeared in mid 1938.  If you look at what titles appeared in the next couple years they are overwhelmingly superhero and their circulation numbers made everyone take notice of the comics. 

Action1_newstand_theagenes.jpg

Other than the obvious, and maybe Adventure and Detective, what a boring newstand. I wonder how long any of these would have lasted. What would the future of comic books have been like without Action #1? Top of the list all day long and twice on Sundays. All superheroes to follow were wannabees. It was the first.

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1 minute ago, Robot Man said:

Other than the obvious, and maybe Adventure and Detective, what a boring newstand. I wonder how long any of these would have lasted. What would the future of comic books have been like without Action #1? Top of the list all day long and twice on Sundays. All superheroes to follow were wannabees. It was the first.

While I have to grant most of your point, I love the Scribbly cover on the Funnies.  That's a bit more of a personal taste thing, though; Scribbly is one of my all time favorite comics.

 

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3 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

I think this argument has high potential.  But, here's my question:  Which artists and stories were influenced by S&K's presentation of action in the GA?  I ask this seriously.  I've read that S&K were innovators in depicting action, and were influential, but I'm not sure who they were influencing.

I honestly think most of 'em. I can't recall an interview with a GA creator who didn't at least acknowledge Jack Kirby, but I'm sure it's happened! Not that they were trying to ape his style, just capture some of the Oomph.

This is off the top of my head, but it kind of feels like Kirby and Eisner were the paradigm shift in the general direction of comics art. A transition from illustrators like Foster and Raymond, or cartoonists, to the flowing action that maximized the format. Just a thought.

Edited by KirbyJack
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2 minutes ago, KirbyJack said:

I honestly think most of 'em. I can't recall an interview with a GA creator who didn't at least acknowledge Jack Kirby, but I'm sure it's happened! 

This is off the top of my head, but it kind of feels like Kirby and Eisner were the paradigm shift in the general direction of comics art. A transition from illustrators like Foster and Raymond, or cartoonists, to the flowing action that maximized the format. Just a thought.

When I read DC comics of the later 40s and 50s, I never find myself saying "how Kirbyesque."  

Frankly, I think Kirby's influence blossomed in the SA, not the GA.  The leading GA influence has always seemed to be Alex Raymond (on the Fines, Moldoff's etc.) and, although he's rarely credited, Shuster (on the DC house style).   Sickles/Caniff had some influence (on Toth, Elias, etc.) and the best artists aspired to be Foster (Williamson, Wood, Frazetta, etc.) but usually could not sustain that quality.

S&K comics really really stand out to me in the GA.  They seem unto themselves.  Which is another way of saying not all that influential.

In the SA, though, a completely different story.

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13 minutes ago, KirbyJack said:

This is off the top of my head, but it kind of feels like Kirby and Eisner were the paradigm shift in the general direction of comics art. A transition from illustrators like Foster and Raymond, or cartoonists, to the flowing action that maximized the format. Just a thought.

I've always thought of Kirby as a cartoonist in the GA.  And by that I mean animator.  He had worked as an in-betweener before working for Simon, and I think that the dynamism that he brought to his choice of how to break down action - which really stemmed on focusing on the "in-between" moments in, for example, a swing of a punch - came from that cartoonist background.  To be clear, I don't deny he was influential in the SA, I just can't point to GA superhero artists who followed the S&K style.

Edited by sfcityduck
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9 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Frankly, I think Kirby's influence blossomed in the SA, not the GA.  The leading GA influence has always seemed to be Alex Raymond (on the Fines, Moldoff's etc.) and, although he's rarely credited, Shuster (on the DC house style).   Sickles/Caniff had some influence (on Toth, Elias, etc.) and the best artists aspired to be Foster (Williamson, Wood, Frazetta, etc.) but usually could not sustain that quality.

Shuster's style was completely based on Roy Crane's Wash Tubbs and Cap'n Easy.  It wouldn't surprise if every panel of Foster/Raymond/Crane/Caniff/Sickles wasn't swiped by at least one comic book artist.  Some panels were definitely swiped more than once.  Caniff's style was probably the most imitated as he was the best story teller and hugely popular in the 40s.

In the 50s, it was Toth/Barry that set the standard.

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33 minutes ago, OtherEric said:

While I have to grant most of your point, I love the Scribbly cover on the Funnies.  That's a bit more of a personal taste thing, though; Scribbly is one of my all time favorite comics.

 

Personally, I love the Popeye and have a copy of that book. Would it sustain me as a regular comic book buyer? Probably not.

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19 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

I've always thought of Kirby as a cartoonist in the GA.  And by that I mean animator.  He had worked as an in-betweener before working for Simon, and I think that the dynamism that he brought to his choice of how to break down action - which really stemmed on focusing on the "in-between" moments in, for example, a swing of a punch - came from that cartoonist background.  To be clear, I don't deny he was influential in the SA, I just can't point to GA superhero artists who followed the S&K style.

Fair points, both. I 100% agree that the SA is really where Kirby defined the form. 

 

How about Mort Meskin? :idea:

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33 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

I've always thought of Kirby as a cartoonist in the GA.  And by that I mean animator.  He had worked as an in-betweener before working for Simon, and I think that the dynamism that he brought to his choice of how to break down action - which really stemmed on focusing on the "in-between" moments in, for example, a swing of a punch - came from that cartoonist background.  To be clear, I don't deny he was influential in the SA, I just can't point to GA superhero artists who followed the S&K style.

Gil Kane talked about the impact that Kirby had on other artists in the GA.  Timely and MLJ artists were definitely influenced by Kirby. 

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21 hours ago, szav said:

As stated when I started this thread, I don't proclaim to have a very in depth knowledge of comic book history, but I will offer up one book that I haven't seen any mention of yet that surprises me because it seems like a clear top ten candidate, and that's Young Romance #1. 

I support this wholeheartedly and it has nothing to do with me owning a copy. Okay, maybe a little.

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2 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Frankly, I think Kirby's influence blossomed in the SA, not the GA.  The leading GA influence has always seemed to be Alex Raymond (on the Fines, Moldoff's etc.) and, although he's rarely credited, Shuster (on the DC house style).   Sickles/Caniff had some influence (on Toth, Elias, etc.) and the best artists aspired to be Foster (Williamson, Wood, Frazetta, etc.) but usually could not sustain that quality.

Notwithstanding AS post above re: Gil Kane talking how Kirby influenced artists in the GA, I am with sfcityduck here. I have read every issue of the revived Alter Ego and I rarely recall when artists listed other comic artists as inspirations for their work. The giants of strips, yes; other comic creators, rarely and topping the list is Lou Fine, not Kirby. Fine did action well on his own, less fluid than Kirby for sure, but no less effective. Doesn't mean that Kirby wasn't someone they watched or had to emulate when he left but his influence is on the second generation of comic artists, not the first. Happy to be corrected.

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10 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I am going to look at this question in a different way. I am going to look at it as what if a modern comic book collector today started to look for the most important and historical comics?

In other words somebody who just started to collect GA comics. What would someone who is new at collecting GA comics and a different perspective think? Someone who doesn't really know all the great history. I think they would seek out this top ten list far more than not.

1. Detective Comics #27 (the holy grail for the new modern GA collector).

2. Captain America #1( The heart and soul of the Marvel movies. The Legend ).

3. Action #1 (Nuff said)!

4. All Star #8 (the more popular than ever Wonder Woman first appearance).

5. Batman #1 (First Joker who is considered ultra hip with modern crowd not to mention Catwoman`s first appearance).

6. Pep #22 (First Archie the mega star of the hit Riverdale series).

7. More Fun #73( the dynamic debuts of TV/MOVIE hits Green Arrow and Aquaman).

8. Whiz #2( Shazam the first appearance).

9. Marvel Comics #1(where it all started)

10. Detective # 38 (first Robin).

:fear:

 

This ...

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