Top 10 most Influential and Historically Important GA Books 2 2

[Knightsofold]

On 3/19/2019 at 6:16 PM, sfcityduck said:

  Is CA 1 historically significant because it went full tilt against the Nazi's in 1941?  You can make that case, and maybe you are right.  But, in my view, because FDR, in his "Arsenal of Democracy Speech" in December 1940 (before the 3/41 CA 1), had effectively committed the US to go to war against Germany and Japan, CA 1 was a reflection of its times.  It is a really cool book and series, but I think the historical  import of CA 1 is a bit overstated by collectors. 

Captain America Comics #1 hit stands December 20th, 9 days before FDR’s “Arsenal of Democracy” speech.  Not March 1941.

[telerites]

7 minutes ago, Scrooge said:

If you want to know how many comics kids read in 1946 for each grade … - Readership peaked in 6th grade or circa 11 year-old.

That one second grader who was reading 15 or more comics, no doubt, became a MENSA member and a nuclear physicist.

[Cat-Man_America]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the original concept of this thread has gone a bit far afield from influences and historical importance.

Apparently things started going off the rails around the time Action #1 was displayed with other comics of the same time frame on a vintage rack. While both pro and con arguments could be made that all things advancing comic heroes spring from Superman's success, it doesn't alter the fact that other characters and innovative ideas moved the ball forward in different ways after Superman's success and entirely independent of the Man of Steel.  

Just to demonstrate the variety of characters that have evolved with little or no influence  from Superman, there are patriotically themed costumed heroes (MLJ's The Shield, Timely's Captain America, etc., etc..), android heroes (Timely's The Human Torch), science gone awry conflicted hero/villains (Hillman's The Heap, Prize's Frankenstein), sidekicks (Batman's Robin, The Shield's Rusty, Cap's Bucky, Cat-Man's Kitten, The Black Owl's Yank & Doodle, etc.), super villains (Lev Gleason's The Claw), boy legions (Timely's Young Allies, DC's Newsboy Legion & Guardian, Harvey's Boy Heroes, etc.), unique physical properties (Quality's Plastic Man, Reg'lar Fellers Heroic's Hydroman, etc.), uniformed combat teams (Qualty's Blackhawks), and so on.

I'd also suggest that statistical data, tables, charts, slide rule calculations and what-not, while crucial to understanding trends prompted by sales, tells us little about the advances made within various publisher's lines in a constantly evolving, fast growth comic industry.  Readership gives us demographic data that corresponds to whatever is popular at any given moment or trending at the time, but fails to take into account the target audience's perception of art, stories, current events (war themes, for instance), nor distribution and other factors that impact sales,.  In short, a thorough analysis of all the influences on comic history would probably have Superman high-tailing it for the nearest phone booth and the relative safety of his meek, mild-mannered Clark Kent alter ego.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Cat-Man_America

[szav]

7 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

the original concept of this thread has gone a bit far afield from influences and historical importance

Eh no harm or surprise that the thread went off on a tangent.  I did ask a rather open ended highly subjective question,  and I asked for a ranking on something that can't really be quantified...influence and importance.  There's a lot of apples to oranges comparisons being made, but I'm happy for the response my question got.  My main purpose was to be informed of important and interesting books that may have escaped my notice until now, and there have been some great ones brought up.  Coulda got this info from a history book, and I've read several on GA comics, but its great to read the responses from the people who frequent these boards.

[Scrooge]

8 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

I'd also suggest that statistical data, tables, charts, slide rule calculations and what-not, while crucial to understanding trends prompted by sales, tells us little about the advances made within various publisher's lines in a constantly evolving, fast growth comic industry.

No they won't do that on their own but at the same time they do indicate that on this list, we probably should limit the concentration of super-hero books. The main 2 ought to be enough given empirical evidence. The super-hero centric lists also tend to not list Mad # 1 and that's missing the trend breaking and ground breaking newness of Mad's introduction. I got a much better appreciation of the relevance, status and context of Mad # 1 from reading Bill Schelly's biography of Kurtzman. I believe Bill did a honest effort at defining the cultural relevance of Mad in those pages.

[waaaghboss]

 

On 3/20/2019 at 2:35 PM, ComicConnoisseur said:

I think the main reason was DC never went out of business. They kept Batman in the public eye decade after decade with new comic book stories. It also seems like every decade Batman had a tv series, movie, cartoon, video game or some combination to keep the character fresh that helped introduce Batman to new audiences.

 

Also, isn't it said that Batman is defined by his villains?  Anyone in here could easily name half a dozen classic bat villain, but honestly I can't name a single The Shadow, Phantom, or Zorro villain.   I'd be surprised if many people could.

[Scrooge]

6 hours ago, waaaghboss said:

I can't name a single The Shadow

I might be able to do but The Shadow was not defined by his villains. He was defined by the visceral reaction his mere (unseen) presence arose in his targets. There's the power of The Shadow, much more than his omnipotence.

In fact, I wasn't sure if your comment was in favor of Batman or detrimental to Batman.

I just know I love me some Shadow. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

6 hours ago, waaaghboss said:

 

Also, isn't it said that Batman is defined by his villains?  Anyone in here could easily name half a dozen classic bat villain, but honestly I can't name a single The Shadow, Phantom, or Zorro villain.   I'd be surprised if many people could.

So true.

Batman along with Spider-Man have the best villains and both are DC's and Marvel's each top number one hero.

So a very good point about Batman.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by ComicConnoisseur

[Bookery]

7 hours ago, waaaghboss said:

 

Also, isn't it said that Batman is defined by his villains?  Anyone in here could easily name half a dozen classic bat villain, but honestly I can't name a single The Shadow, Phantom, or Zorro villain.   I'd be surprised if many people could.

Easy --

The Shadow  (Shiwan-Khan; The Hand)

Phantom  (that guy in the pith-helmet to the left of the temple)

Zorro  (that rich pompous landowner guy... er...)

Okay.  Point made.

 

[Robot Man]

11 hours ago, Scrooge said:

No they won't do that on their own but at the same time they do indicate that on this list, we probably should limit the concentration of super-hero books. The main 2 ought to be enough given empirical evidence. The super-hero centric lists also tend to not list Mad # 1 and that's missing the trend breaking and ground breaking newness of Mad's introduction. I got a much better appreciation of the relevance, status and context of Mad # 1 from reading Bill Schelly's biography of Kurtzman. I believe Bill did a honest effort at defining the cultural relevance of Mad in those pages.

I wasn’t around when MAD #1 came out. My first one was #72 as a magazine. Was totally different from the comic books I’d been reading. It grabbed me hard. So much so, I decided to see if I could find them all. I’ll never forget when my holy grail came in the mail from Howard Rogofsky. MAD #1, the one that started it all. Without MAD, I probably wouldn’t have discovered all the great comics out there and became the collector I am today.

[Cat-Man_America]

3 hours ago, Bookery said:

Easy --

The Shadow  (Shiwan-Khan; The Hand)

Phantom  (that guy in the pith-helmet to the left of the temple)

Zorro  (that rich pompous landowner guy... er...)

Okay.  Point made.

 

Ah, yes, but not so fast!  You're dead-on with The Shadow and Shiwan-Khan, maybe a trifle pithy about the Phantom though.  As for Zorro, the wealthy landowner, Don Luis B Quintero, is a wuss in the genre defining 20th Century Fox version (1940).  The lascivious Captain of the Guard Esteban played by Basil Rathbone defines Zorro's heroics even better than the Joker defines Batman's.  Esteban  "...forever thrusting at this and that" (alluding to his intentions with the pompous landowner's pampered wife) is the real power behind Don Luis until Tyrone Power's Zorro makes a final point in showing him the straight and narrow. 

3 hours ago, Robot Man said:

I wasn’t around when MAD #1 came out. My first one was #72 as a magazine. Was totally different from the comic books I’d been reading. It grabbed me hard. So much so, I decided to see if I could find them all. I’ll never forget when my holy grail came in the mail from Howard Rogofsky. MAD #1, the one that started it all. Without MAD, I probably wouldn’t have discovered all the great comics out there and became the collector I am today.

I discovered EC and other comic lines through parodies brought forward in The Mad Reader (Ballantine paperbacks), so I hear ya. 

[Robot Man]

The Inside MAD pb is the one that really got me. It took me while to figure out that the little pictures of MADs were the earliest issues. Man, I wanted those.

[adamstrange]

 

https://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Comics-Books-Jerry-Weist/dp/0794817580/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=100+greatest+comic+books&qid=1553376674&s=gateway&sr=8-2

Edited March 23, 2019 by adamstrange

[adamstrange]

I'm not a big fan of Wiest's book. The choices were based on polling a number of very experienced people but many of their choices and rankings don't seem to be on solid ground.  Weist provides commentary throughout that is helpful and Jim Steranko wrote a lengthy introduction.

[Electricmastro]

I'll just list by series than by specific issues:

Four Color

Detective Comics

Action Comics

Walt Disney's Comics & Stories

Pep Comics

Jumbo Comics

Whiz Comics

Police Comics

Crime Does Not Pay

More Fun Comics

Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies Comics

Flash Comics

All-American Comics

Shadow Comics

Marvel Mystery Comics

Captain America Comics

All-Star Comics

Casper The Friendly Ghost

Military Comics

Tales from the Crypt

Edited October 7, 2019 by Electricmastro

[Pantodude]

Whenever I see a collage of significant GA books, the one that always stands out for me is World Famous Heroes Magazine #1 (Centaur, 1941).   Its cover prominently and proudly shows real historical greats.  To me, it seems like this book was the “ordinary” (read mortal and otherwise un-enhanced) and human person’s last stand at capturing the young’s imagination before the burgeoning wave of modern (read alien or mutated or otherwise enhanced) heroes took the industry by storm.    I say “young” because comic books were originally intended for the pre-adult, impressionable crowd.  

Just think about that for a moment.  As late as 1941, a big-time player like Centaur had the audacity(!) to put mere humans (albeit special ones, no doubt) against the likes of Superman, Batman, etc.   And at least for least for a while, this book held its own.     

This book MUST be high on this thread’s list simply because it cannot be that we (especially the younger crowd) can no longer be inspired by regular human being doing great, heroic things.  And WFH#1 reminds us that we can and should.  

Not aware of any other mainstream book like this at that crucial time, the start of the GA.   

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Pantodude

[buttock]

19 minutes ago, Pantodude said:

Whenever I see a collage of significant GA books, the one that always stands out for me is World Famous Heroes Magazine #1 (Centaur, 1941).   Its cover prominently and proudly shows real historical greats.  To me, it seems like this book was the “ordinary” (read mortal and otherwise un-enhanced) and human person’s last stand at capturing the young’s imagination before the burgeoning wave of modern (read alien or mutated or otherwise enhanced) heroes took the industry by storm.    I say “young” because comic books were originally intended for the pre-adult, impressionable crowd.  

Just think about that for a moment.  As late as 1941, a big-time player like Centaur had the audacity(!) to put mere humans (albeit special ones, no doubt) against the likes of Superman, Batman, etc.   And at least for least for a while, this book held its own.     

This book MUST be high on this thread’s list simply because it cannot be that we (especially the younger crowd) can no longer be inspired by regular human being doing great, heroic things.  And WFH#1 reminds us that we can and should.  

Not aware of any other mainstream book like this at that crucial time, the start of the GA.   

 

Wut?

[Pantodude]

1 minute ago, buttock said:

Wut?

Perhaps because my dad was in the military and otherwise real cool, just saying, that for me, that book reminds me that there was a time when young people cared to read (or at least were expected to be inspired by) the non-fictional accounts of mere mortals and otherwise ordinary people.  

Don’t get me wrong.   I love my superhero collection.  But I also appreciate the existence of that book.