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Trimmed gets a "Professional" now?
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Started by Hero Restoration,

63 posts in this topic

The Lions Den

The Lions Den

Posted
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Lukesaurus said:

Hope no one gets upset , i have a small question about trimmed books and i thought i would piggy back this thread .

What does it mean when there is no restoration level on the label just the words apparent ?

Does it mean they are not sure and if let's say i submited the book 5 more times i could get a blue label from one of the submisions ?

 

Thanks and sorry for the slight offtopic .

 

trimmed.JPG

In my mind, trimming is still restoration and should be treated as such. But it appears that CGC doesn't incorporate trimming into their classification structure like other types of restoration. So trimmed books are simply noted as trimmed and receive a purple label. So the word "apparent" would mean that the book looks like a 9.6, but the bottom edge is trimmed. I suppose you could resubmit the book and hope for a blue label, but I think the chances of that happening are rather slim. Good luck, and thanks for your post...

Edited by The Lions Den
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sledgehammer

sledgehammer

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Posted (edited)
On 3/26/2019 at 9:54 PM, James J Johnson said:

This appears to be a trend and not a mistake.

I've asked Gemma if there was ever a change.

I'm just curious if there are old SA labels where the color touch was professional, but the trimming is what made it "amateur".

This is not that "recent" of a trend.

I found a 2015 label that was A-1, with slight color touch and trimmed. 1249987003

I also found a 2016 label that was C-1, with slight color touch and trimmed. 0296485018

Edited by sledgehammer
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The Lions Den

The Lions Den

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Posted
On 3/20/2019 at 5:57 PM, MastrCntrlProgram said:

So, I was under the impression that "trimming" was considered amateur, and always got a "C". Anyone else notice this?

 

af15 a5.jpg

I've reached the conclusion that trimming, while still deemed restoration, isn't classified as amateur or professional by CGC or CCS. It appears to be treated separately from other types of restoration. This explains the category designation shown above, as well as some of the other examples that've been shown here... 

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sledgehammer

sledgehammer

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Posted

That FF answered my main question, which was whether trimming would automatically make an otherwise SP label, amateur.

It's nice that it doesn't.

If a book looks nice to me (trimmed), I could live with color touch with no bleed thru, and the label hopefully has always made that clear.

 

I have another question now.

I've seen a book for sale on the boards with a blue label, and the seller said it was pressed and "cleaned".

Are there cleaning options that don't get noted as restored if discovered? The clasification "B" seems to refer only to "excessive whiteness".

Was this a case where CGC missed it?

The original restored AF 15 in this thread is noted as "cleaned".

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The Lions Den

The Lions Den

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23 hours ago, sledgehammer said:

That FF answered my main question, which was whether trimming would automatically make an otherwise SP label, amateur.

It's nice that it doesn't.

If a book looks nice to me (trimmed), I could live with color touch with no bleed thru, and the label hopefully has always made that clear.

 

I have another question now.

I've seen a book for sale on the boards with a blue label, and the seller said it was pressed and "cleaned".

Are there cleaning options that don't get noted as restored if discovered? The clasification "B" seems to refer only to "excessive whiteness".

Was this a case where CGC missed it?

The original restored AF 15 in this thread is noted as "cleaned".

Yes, from what I understand, "dry" cleaning isn't considered restoration, but "wet" cleaning is...

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The Lions Den

The Lions Den

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, oldrover said:

I have a TTA36 8.5, from 2002, slightly professionally restored, with trimming...

On eBay now...

Maybe if the trimming is done a certain way? I have no idea.

 

This is an old label book, which came before the current restoration guidelines, but I think I can explain this one as well. If we follow the established template, the professional restoration would be for the glue on the cover (it's not a Golden Age book, so apparently different rules apply concerning glue on the cover). The trimming is noted as "cover trimmed" because CGC wanted to be specific about how much of the book was trimmed (just the top edge of the cover instead of the entire book). So it makes perfect sense from that standpoint. But keep in mind that when the restoration guidelines were enhanced (I believe it was about five years ago) the criteria was changed significantly in order to differentiate between professional and amateur restoration. Since it's usually impossible to tell if trimming is professional or amateur, trimming still remains a separate entity. The only thing that should be noted is where the trimming occurs on the book, such as on your TTA 36. For example, if the entire book was trimmed on the top, the notation would be "top edge trimmed" instead of "top edge of cover trimmed." And of course, now that I've said this, I'm probably going to see a book that'll blow this entire theory right out of the water...  lol 

Edited by The Lions Den
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The Lions Den

The Lions Den

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, oldrover said:

I have a TTA36 8.5, from 2002, slightly professionally restored, with trimming...

On eBay now...

Maybe if the trimming is done a certain way? I have no idea.

 

And I see your Avengers #4 received a Conserved label. Conserved books must meet very strict criteria to achieve that designation. Interesting to note how the information appears on the label as well; unobtrusive and quite appealing. Good luck with your auctions!  :)

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James J Johnson

James J Johnson

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1 hour ago, The Lions Den said:

And I see your Avengers #4 received a Conserved label. Conserved books must meet very strict criteria to achieve that designation. Interesting to note how the information appears on the label as well; unobtrusive and quite appealing. Good luck with your auctions!  :)

The colors on the Avengers #4 couldn't be deeper and fresher if you went back to 1963 in a time machine to buy one. How on earth does a book get "cleaned", to an extent that it  gets a conserved designation, without whatever is used to clean it muting the colors, even to a small degree? Usually, anything used to whiten or brighten the cover whites will make the reds especially, look splotchy as well as lightening the depth of the color.

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James J Johnson

James J Johnson

Posted
Posted
On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 9:22 AM, The Lions Den said:

I've reached the conclusion that trimming, while still deemed restoration, isn't classified as amateur or professional by CGC or CCS. It appears to be treated separately from other types of restoration. This explains the category designation shown above, as well as some of the other examples that've been shown here... 

Trimming isn't restoration. But it is alteration. So it falls under the same purple label umbrella as restoration.

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The Lions Den

The Lions Den

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Trimming isn't restoration. But it is alteration. So it falls under the same purple label umbrella as restoration.

This actually sounds like a title for an episode of The Big Bang Theory: "The Restoration Alteration..." 

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The Lions Den

The Lions Den

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3 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Yeah, 'cause trimming isn't restoring a book to it's former glory, so it's not truly "restoration". Makes sense.

I don't understand trimming.

As one of my friends put it: "All books are trimmed, it just depends on who did the trimming..."  :preach:

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The Lions Den

The Lions Den

Posted
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3 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

tr00

As long as there's money to be made by artificially enhancing the appearance of a book, there are people out there that are going to do it. To me, what really hurts about trimming is that it's so irreversible. There are many enthusiasts in the hobby that view trimming as the worst thing you can do to a book. I would have to agree...  

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