CGC lost my books? 2 2

[RockMyAmadeus]

27 minutes ago, It'sOnlyRight said:

If you wanna show go ahead. 

You can go check out either the "This week back from CGC" thread, or my sales threads in Copper/Modern.

Bragging about your ability to grade is just a shade out sync with being classy. Let your results speak for themselves. No need to tell people your "eyes" are better than theirs, especially on the CGC board, especially when you've got all of 7 months and 63 posts under your belt, and especially to a member who's been here for nearly a decade and a half and commands a decent amount of respect from his peers.

Or not.

Your choice. As PointFive said, you have a legitimate beef...but if you believe that bragging about your grading ability is going to win you support, I would imagine you're mistaken. 

[It'sOnlyRight]

26 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You can go check out either the "This week back from CGC" thread, or my sales threads in Copper/Modern.

Bragging about your ability to grade is just a shade out sync with being classy. Let your results speak for themselves. No need to tell people your "eyes" are better than theirs, especially on the CGC board, especially when you've got all of 7 months and 63 posts under your belt, and especially to a member who's been here for nearly a decade and a half and commands a decent amount of respect from his peers.

Or not.

Your choice. As PointFive said, you have a legitimate beef...but if you believe that bragging about your grading ability is going to win you support, I would imagine you're mistaken. 

People disrespect here to much so I do the same. I only react. If you are respectful I will be respectful. I don't care if you are here for 100 years. Be respectful and you will get the same. Be disrespectful and you will get the same. And who said I was looking for support? I started this thread to connect with people who are going through the same situation but people go off topic and start accusing me and saying other things that have nothing to do with this thread. BE RESPECTFUL TO OTHERS. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, It'sOnlyRight said:

People disrespect here to much so I do the same. I only react. If you are respectful I will be respectful. I don't care if you are here for 100 years. Be respectful and you will get the same. Be disrespectful and you will get the same. And who said I was looking for support? I started this thread to connect with people who are going through the same situation but people go off topic and start accusing me and saying other things that have nothing to do with this thread. BE RESPECTFUL TO OTHERS. 

You have chosen poorly.

 

[Tony S]

Well I resisted a long'ish post to the OP's question because I figured the books would show up soon. That hasn't happened (yet) and it's been longer than it should. The OP's question was has anyone else experienced this and the implicit question is how is it handled if CGC loses books. 

I've not had CGC lose books and don't know anyone that has. I have seen a situation very similar to this happen with a Voldy submission by a very good friend, so I know the details. It was a submission of about $2500 worth of books (a couple of lower grade keys) The books were sent Priority Mail. But no insurance and no signature required. Just USPS's free tracking. Voldy and my friend and USPS went round and round for a month. Meetings with the local postmaster, exhaustive search (by Voldy staff anyway)  And this was when Voldy was in Florida.  The BOTTOM LINE is that my friend was out the books and $$. They were never found. USPS insisted their tracking showed the packaged delivered. Said package was NOT insured and did NOT require a signature. They were done. Voldy insisted they never got the package. They were done.  Voldy stopped using a PO Box and now only lists a street address. 

NOW - let us talk about "why" and the particulars that could apply here:

Tracking is ONLY tracking. It's not insurance and it doesn't require a signature which would provide actual PROOF that the package was delivered to someone at the business.  There is a reason that third party private shipping insurance requires a signature and requires a carrier service that is deemed as fairly reliable. 

With tracking, all that takes place is the postal employee marks the package as delivered.  In this case - with CGC - it means ONLY that the package has been placed with the other couple of hundred packages that are going to be delivered later that day or next. If the package doesn't require a signature, this is the end of the tracking trail. What's important to take away is that while the package shows as delivered - it has not been. There is a period of time that the package SHOWS delivered but is actually still sitting on a skid or in a truck at USPS  - WAITING to be delivered to CGC. If the package requires a signature, tracking at this point will show something along the lines of "available for pickup" or "delivery attempted, no authorized agent available" 

I do not see where the OP has indicated if the package required a signature and/or was insured.  If I have missed that, apologies. But I'm going to hazard a guess that someone that used Media Mail might not have paid the extra $$ for a signature and some insurance. Hopefully I'm wrong, because I'm getting to the likely outcomes here. 

If a package is insured for $600 or more (at least this is my experience and ship all the time) with USPS a signature is automatically required. With less or no insurance a signature can be required for an extra fee. Someone has to sign for the package and that signature can be requested. Just go online with the tracking number and ask for it.  Usually shows up as an email in a day. 

If the OP has proof - like a signature - that a CGC employee signed for the books then ultimately he will get compensated. That compensation is the lesser of the FMV of the books (as determined by CGC) or the declared value of the books.  Sometimes CGC will also secure replacement copies of the book(s)  If the OP paid for insurance and signature and USPS cannot prove they delivered the package (again - a signature) then the OP files a claim with USPS.  I've heard people say such claims were easy and I've heard complaints is was long and drawn out. Obviously with an insurance claim with the carrier you are not ever getting more than what you insured the contents for. And you likely will be asked to prove the books were worth as much as you say. 

So... a wall of text, I thought it needed an explanation.  If the package was insured and required a signature the OP should and will most likely be compensated. By CGC or USPS, based on what I've described above. 

If the media mail package only had tracking added (I think this costs like 25 cents?) then the OP needs to pray his books are found. Because if they are not then they are gone and no compensation is likely. 

I will close by saying that if you give it any thought - think like a thief - uninsured packages with no insurance to a business like CGC have to be tempting. Could be something really nice in that box. Once it's marked "delivered" in the system it is pretty much untraceable.  Maybe it's the employee with the scanner marking it "delivered". Maybe it's someone else that waits until no one is around and grabs a box or two. I'd like to think not, but maybe it's someone at receiving end (CGC) And maybe it just literally fell off the truck along the way.  But the point is you only have proof of delivery when you pay for a signature and you only get compensation for lost and damaged packages when you pay for insurance for the contents of the package. 

[It'sOnlyRight]

11 minutes ago, Tony S said:

Well I resisted a long'ish post to the OP's question because I figured the books would show up soon. That hasn't happened (yet) and it's been longer than it should. The OP's question was has anyone else experienced this and the implicit question is how is it handled if CGC loses books. 

I've not had CGC lose books and don't know anyone that has. I have seen a situation very similar to this happen with a Voldy submission by a very good friend, so I know the details. It was a submission of about $2500 worth of books (a couple of lower grade keys) The books were sent Priority Mail. But no insurance and no signature required. Just USPS's free tracking. Voldy and my friend and USPS went round and round for a month. Meetings with the local postmaster, exhaustive search (by Voldy staff anyway)  And this was when Voldy was in Florida.  The BOTTOM LINE is that my friend was out the books and $$. They were never found. USPS insisted their tracking showed the packaged delivered. Said package was NOT insured and did NOT require a signature. They were done. Voldy insisted they never got the package. They were done.  Voldy stopped using a PO Box and now only lists a street address. 

NOW - let us talk about "why" and the particulars that could apply here:

Tracking is ONLY tracking. It's not insurance and it doesn't require a signature which would provide actual PROOF that the package was delivered to someone at the business.  There is a reason that third party private shipping insurance requires a signature and requires a carrier service that is deemed as fairly reliable. 

With tracking, all that takes place is the postal employee marks the package as delivered.  In this case - with CGC - it means ONLY that the package has been placed with the other couple of hundred packages that are going to be delivered later that day or next. If the package doesn't require a signature, this is the end of the tracking trail. What's important to take away is that while the package shows as delivered - it has not been. There is a period of time that the package SHOWS delivered but is actually still sitting on a skid or in a truck at USPS  - WAITING to be delivered to CGC. If the package requires a signature, tracking at this point will show something along the lines of "available for pickup" or "delivery attempted, no authorized agent available" 

I do not see where the OP has indicated if the package required a signature and/or was insured.  If I have missed that, apologies. But I'm going to hazard a guess that someone that used Media Mail might not have paid the extra $$ for a signature and some insurance. Hopefully I'm wrong, because I'm getting to the likely outcomes here. 

If a package is insured for $600 or more (at least this is my experience and ship all the time) with USPS a signature is automatically required. With less or no insurance a signature can be required for an extra fee. Someone has to sign for the package and that signature can be requested. Just go online with the tracking number and ask for it.  Usually shows up as an email in a day. 

If the OP has proof - like a signature - that a CGC employee signed for the books then ultimately he will get compensated. That compensation is the lesser of the FMV of the books (as determined by CGC) or the declared value of the books.  Sometimes CGC will also secure replacement copies of the book(s)  If the OP paid for insurance and signature and USPS cannot prove they delivered the package (again - a signature) then the OP files a claim with USPS.  I've heard people say such claims were easy and I've heard complaints is was long and drawn out. Obviously with an insurance claim with the carrier you are not ever getting more than what you insured the contents for. And you likely will be asked to prove the books were worth as much as you say. 

So... a wall of text, I thought it needed an explanation.  If the package was insured and required a signature the OP should and will most likely be compensated. By CGC or USPS, based on what I've described above. 

If the media mail package only had tracking added (I think this costs like 25 cents?) then the OP needs to pray his books are found. Because if they are not then they are gone and no compensation is likely. 

I will close by saying that if you give it any thought - think like a thief - uninsured packages with no insurance to a business like CGC have to be tempting. Could be something really nice in that box. Once it's marked "delivered" in the system it is pretty much untraceable.  Maybe it's the employee with the scanner marking it "delivered". Maybe it's someone else that waits until no one is around and grabs a box or two. I'd like to think not, but maybe it's someone at receiving end (CGC) And maybe it just literally fell off the truck along the way.  But the point is you only have proof of delivery when you pay for a signature and you only get compensation for lost and damaged packages when you pay for insurance for the contents of the package. 

Thank you for respectful and thoughtful input. Here is my proof of delivery

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

[shadroch]

You sent a 3 pound package via media mail? You saved what? Five dollars.  How'd that work out for you?

[It'sOnlyRight]

10 minutes ago, shadroch said:

You sent a 3 pound package via media mail? You saved what? Five dollars.  How'd that work out for you?

So you're blaming USPS when someone at CGC signed for it? Wow I can't believe it

[Point Five]

Yes, the issue is on CGC. 

 

[Tony S]

7 hours ago, shadroch said:

You sent a 3 pound package via media mail? You saved what? Five dollars.  How'd that work out for you?

 

7 hours ago, It'sOnlyRight said:

So you're blaming USPS when someone at CGC signed for it? Wow I can't believe it

Those of us with private shipping insurance would rarely use parcel or media mail, because their is little to no coverage from our private policies. However - USPS will sell insurance and signature services for parcel and media mail. If one adds USPS services of insurance and signature  then the only real downside to slower, less expensive classes of mail is that it takes longer for the package to be delivered.  A general rule of shipping is that the less time a package spends in the hands of the carrier, the less likely any damage. But one can mitigate the risk of damage by packaging securely. 

CGC received this package.  Most likely it will eventually be found. Human beings make mistakes, the package or the books are I believe almost certainly sitting somewhere that they aren't supposed to be sitting and no one has noticed them yet.  But if they don't turn up CGC has policies for things  like this happening.  Compensation or replacement. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Tony S

[RCheli]

Who cares how he shipped it? Whether it was media mail, priority, or by pigeon, the package arrived at CGC and was signed for. It was also insured; however, he likely cannot collect on that insurance as it was signed for when delivered, so the USPS is not to blame.

Arguing about media mail is missing the point. 

The point is that his comics are not in the system after 2 1/2 weeks, when others usually have them up within days. 

The point also is that as we have seen in the past, CGC's customer service is somewhat lacking.

[shadroch]

4 hours ago, Point Five said:

Yes, the issue is on CGC. 

 

That's not the point.  

 

26 minutes ago, Tony S said:

 

Those of us with private shipping insurance would rarely use parcel or media mail, because their is little to no coverage from our private policies. However - USPS will sell insurance and signature services for parcel and media mail. If one adds USPS services of insurance and signature  then the only real downside to slower, less expensive classes of mail is that it takes longer for the package to be delivered.  A general rule of shipping is that the less time a package spends in the hands of the carrier, the less likely any damage. But one can mitigate the risk of damage by packaging securely. 

CGC received this package.  Most likely it will eventually be found. Human beings make mistakes, the package or the books are I believe almost certainly sitting somewhere that they aren't supposed to be sitting and no one has noticed them yet.  But if they don't turn up CGC has policies for things  like this happening.  Compensation or replacement. 

No, the downside of using media mail is why take the chance it gets opened for inspection. The difference between shipping them priority and media on a three pound package is negligible and certainly isn't worth it. You can pack the books as carefully as you want, but the people opening your box to inspect it won't care or repack them as securely. You mitigate damage by not walking through a minefield to save a buck or two.

I won't even bring up the fact that shipping comics media mail is against postal regulations.  Risking damage to potential 9.8 BA. books in order to save money on a three pound package is foolish. Even if you get away with it 99/100 times,  it's not worth it. These books will turn up, most likely not all get 9.8s and we can always wonder what if.

 

[JollyComics]

13 hours ago, the blob said:

I have never had a media mail package inspected and rejected either coming or going. I used it for cheap stuff and cross my fingers. But still, the package can be in the system weeks longer via media. More opportunity for damage. Also, if improperly sent media mail and damaged, would insurance even pay up?

I often used Media Mail for MyComicShop for years until my last two packages were returned to my address. I found a note inside the package that was inspected and not qualified.  One time, my mail was held at my local PO and I owed them few more dollars because the seller used Media Mail.  Last time, I used it two years ago.  Anything goes beyond $250, Priority Mail and insurance will be used.

[Callaway29]

Not to make things worse, but I've had another package arrive and show up since the last one I reported.

Also, in the recent live interview CGC conducted, they stated the purpose of the "declared value" portion of their form is insurance purposes while at their facility. If they lose your books, I believe they will reimburse you the declared value, and if above their deductible and doesn't severely impact their premiums, I assume they'll file a claim against their insurance policy to in-turn be made whole...

This is the risk of low-balling your value declaration...if you declared accurately, you should be good.

[It'sOnlyRight]

1 hour ago, Callaway29 said:

Not to make things worse, but I've had another package arrive and show up since the last one I reported.

Also, in the recent live interview CGC conducted, they stated the purpose of the "declared value" portion of their form is insurance purposes while at their facility. If they lose your books, I believe they will reimburse you the declared value, and if above their deductible and doesn't severely impact their premiums, I assume they'll file a claim against their insurance policy to in-turn be made whole...

This is the risk of low-balling your value declaration...if you declared accurately, you should be good.

Glad to see your books showed up. 

[It'sOnlyRight]

They tried to offer me declare value in CGC credit. I said no. That is so disrespectful. I put my time and effort to find those books in those grades and they want to offer CGC credit? I'm pissed. 

[RonS2112]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 3:22 PM, entalmighty1 said:

I think I'm more upset with the concept of Eternals 1, Booster Gold 1, and Nova 1 having a potential value of $2,000 than anything else going on in this thread.

Ha!  For the win.  

The irony of course being that one (or two) less of each of these in the world just increases the prices of those left.......

[Point Five]

13 minutes ago, It'sOnlyRight said:

They tried to offer me declare value in CGC credit. I said no. That is so disrespectful. I put my time and effort to find those books in those grades and they want to offer CGC credit? I'm pissed. 

That's a bummer, but to be fair it's not unreasonable for them to ask. I wouldn't be thrilled with it either.

My guess is the books will eventually turn up on their end. But it's not much comfort I know.

 

[ExNihilo]

22 minutes ago, It'sOnlyRight said:

They tried to offer me declare value in CGC credit. I said no. That is so disrespectful. I put my time and effort to find those books in those grades and they want to offer CGC credit? I'm pissed. 

Does that mean CGC admitted they couldn't find the books.  That's unfortunate.  I imagine they'll pop up eventually, but that won't save you from the stress that has already occurred.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Probably not the best idea to claim you "have better eyes" than veteran boardies or accuse others of "not getting laid" (regardless of whether or not they're a controversial poster)...