What do dealers pay for the keys? 1 1

[F For Fake]

I've seen several dealers advertise that they are "paying full guide for keys". I think the important part is "guide", because I'd imagine they're using OSPG to come up with their "value" for the books, and it is often woefully outdated, especially on books that are suddenly hot. Probably still good money left in paying full "guide" for hot books. Anyway, I have no actual experience as I see no reason to sell a book to a dealer when I can sell it myself.

[NP_Gresham]

Just now, bc said:

maybe fast cash to pay for an unexpected bill?

agree with you there.

Not many would call C-Link 'fast' on payment.

[1Cool]

7 minutes ago, october said:

No speculation here. 

I've sold hundreds, probably thousands, of key issues to various dealers over the years. Everything from JIM 83 to NYX 3. Most of the time I shoot for 85%, sometimes less on a raw less popular key, sometimes more on a popular slabbed key. Up until relatively recently this made sense as I was taking in far more comics than I could retail on my own, and dealers (or at least the ones I deal with) take other stuff besides just the hot books, pay promptly, and save me hours and hours of work/hassle. 

I highlighted the part i think is extra important.  How many times do you think a dealer gets someone walking up with just one ultra hot key slabbed and ready to sell.  I'm sure it happens occasionally but I'd think it's way more common for dealers to get someone walking up with a short box full of books where there is 2 or 3 keys books and a ton of stuff that is tough to sell and comiclink probably won't touch it on consignment.

[234wallst]

The short answer (like any other business) is whatever they feel they can make a worthwhile profit on.

I think with comics you still have a generation of collectors who aren't so comfortable with the digital age and online transactions - and these are the types more likely to sell to local dealers rather than online forums/auction sites etc.  But in today's market, major keys are assets so bigger dealers can just hold them if they don't get the price they want. 

I can tell you for fact there are several dealers who buy major keys at various auctions and relist them on ebay for higher prices.  But they are bidding on those auctions same as non-dealers/collectors - so you have a good idea on the price point - not to mention they need to account for the ebay/paypal fees.  I specifically mentioned ebay because based on ID I can confirm it's a dealer.  I'm sure this happens on other auction site marketplaces where the seller ID is not exposed.

[Grib]

3 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

I asked him, "How much you pay for NM TDKR #1 signed by Miller and Janson?"

"Tree fiddy."

Son of a _____ is low-ballin' me.

A NM (9.0 or better) for $350?  This is a $500 to $600 value book so 25 to 30% fee. Not much of a mark up for booth and risk. I always assumed the real money was made on the smaller books because of volume or the lucky find.

[DavidTheDavid]

3 hours ago, october said:

No speculation here. 

I've sold hundreds, probably thousands, of key issues to various dealers over the years. Everything from JIM 83 to NYX 3. Most of the time I shoot for 85%, sometimes less on a raw less popular key, sometimes more on a popular slabbed key. Up until relatively recently this made sense as I was taking in far more comics than I could retail on my own, and dealers (or at least the ones I deal with) take other stuff besides just the hot books, pay promptly, and save me hours and hours of work/hassle. 

What changed recently?

[october]

6 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

What changed recently?

2 kids under four + a lot more part time dealers + ever escalating prices = less comics for me

[LOC Collectibles]

I sell a lot of books to dealers. The main ones I deal with offer a solid amount, pay immediately, and I don't have any hassles with pricing out each book individually. I've bought collections for $3k and sold them to a dealer for $7500 the next day. Yeah I probably lost $1000-2000 in sales but those sales would take me months to make and would take hours upon hours of work. I value my time and freeing up cash to go after something else is worth something to me.

[comicquant]

7 hours ago, LordRahl said:

I highly doubt this is accurate. Who in their right mind is going to sell a Hulk 181 or FF 48 or something similar to a dealer at 60% of FMV? With all of the available options these days to sell something yourself, why would you take a 40% haircut? The only people that might are ones that haven't collected for many years and just aren't up to speed on the market today. But if dealers are only relying on those types for inventory, I imagine they won't have much inventory. For something that moves very easily, I would imagine the percentage to be much closer to 80-85%. Even at that percentage, it's easy money on stuff that moves fast.

This is the range several dealers have told me they pay when buying books.  There's a margin buffer they need to operate within to make it worth their time, money and effort.  I've certainly never sold anyone a book for 60% FMV but apparently there are those out there who will; so whether it's true or not I don't know, but thats what I've been told.  I imagine this is why most dealers offer a consignment service.   

Edited March 28, 2019 by comicquant

[paul747]

6 hours ago, october said:

No speculation here. 

I've sold hundreds, probably thousands, of key issues to various dealers over the years. Everything from JIM 83 to NYX 3. Most of the time I shoot for 85%, sometimes less on a raw less popular key, sometimes more on a popular slabbed key. Up until relatively recently this made sense as I was taking in far more comics than I could retail on my own, and dealers (or at least the ones I deal with) take other stuff besides just the hot books, pay promptly, and save me hours and hours of work/hassle. 

 this Makes sense and it also matters what you paid in the first place.

[paul747]

4 hours ago, 234wallst said:

The short answer (like any other business) is whatever they feel they can make a worthwhile profit on.

I think with comics you still have a generation of collectors who aren't so comfortable with the digital age and online transactions - and these are the types more likely to sell to local dealers rather than online forums/auction sites etc.  But in today's market, major keys are assets so bigger dealers can just hold them if they don't get the price they want. 

I can tell you for fact there are several dealers who buy major keys at various auctions and relist them on ebay for higher prices.  But they are bidding on those auctions same as non-dealers/collectors - so you have a good idea on the price point - not to mention they need to account for the ebay/paypal fees.  I specifically mentioned ebay because based on ID I can confirm it's a dealer.  I'm sure this happens on other auction site marketplaces where the seller ID is not exposed.

If I was to speculate I would say Yes and sometimes they bid each other up and report it to GPA and then list it at the new price. There is still a ton of shade out there!

[Moondog]

6 hours ago, october said:

No speculation here. 

I've sold hundreds, probably thousands, of key issues to various dealers over the years. Everything from JIM 83 to NYX 3. Most of the time I shoot for 85%, sometimes less on a raw less popular key, sometimes more on a popular slabbed key. Up until relatively recently this made sense as I was taking in far more comics than I could retail on my own, and dealers (or at least the ones I deal with) take other stuff besides just the hot books, pay promptly, and save me hours and hours of work/hassle. 

And this is why 90% of people with collections would rather sell to a dealer than go through the time and effort to sell them on their own.

 

[Moondog]

It's easy to overpay for a collection that includes a good sampling of keys.  That's why it's imperative for dealers to be conservative in their estimates of both value and grade.  The problem for dealers is that they know if they're too conservative that they run the risk of the seller taking a pass on their offer.  It's more an art than a science at this point.  So being honest and up front with the seller is always the best approach.  Instead of saying, "I'm paying top dollar for your books" it's better to say, "You've got some great books here and any comics dealer worth his salt will want them. Here's the thing, your books are going to sell for the same price no matter who sells them.  So legitimate dealers, as a whole, will all pay close to the same price for your collection.  My offer is strong and I've got cash to pay right now."

Most sellers will understand that approach.  it works for me.

[Dr. Love]

if it's not liquid, 35% margin for the dealer

[dupont2005]

If a dealer doesn’t want to pay for a key because they’re worried it might not sell immediately, I have some bad news for every non key back issue in their store

[dupont2005]

If they only want to pay 60% for a key it’s their choice but that could limit the number of keys that come their way, but it seems to me most shops don’t really deal in real keys anyway. I saw a low grade TMNT #1 in a shop once, other than that it’s $75 comics listed for $350 and $20 comics listed for $75 on the walls. If they do eBay business with the good stuff I wouldn’t know, but I also suspect not in the shops I’ve been in. They seem to stock the $3 back issues as far back as the Copper Age and recent back issues of unsold monthlies, the stores seem to be supported by pull lists and anything else is extra

[RockMyAmadeus]

Three dollars and fifty cents, my good man.

[jsilverjanet]

All “keys” aren’t equal 

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

12 hours ago, Grib said:

A NM (9.0 or better) for $350?  This is a $500 to $600 value book so 25 to 30% fee. Not much of a mark up for booth and risk. I always assumed the real money was made on the smaller books because of volume or the lucky find.

<- Joke.

<- Your head.

[Grib]

3 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

<- Joke.

<- Your head.

Explain please? Is a Dark Knight 2x ss NM not going for $500-600 or money is made in smaller books-volume? I'm not a dealer so I do not know the answer but I would like too know.