What do dealers pay for the keys? 1 1

[theCapraAegagrus]

30 minutes ago, Grib said:

Explain please? Is a Dark Knight 2x ss NM not going for $500-600 or money is made in smaller books-volume? I'm not a dealer so I do not know the answer but I would like too know.

Go back to my OP.

[Grib]

2 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

Go back to my OP.

So you figure at $350 you are being low balled, maybe. As a non dealer but a business person I wonder are you? If he was to pay you $600 book or $500 per book would he make enough to justify holding a book long enough to sell for the "over going rate"? This means money (inventory) sitting and not making any return on investment until the sale. Cost of show/store, plus the risk of the books value going down (all you need is Miller to be involved in another Spirit movie or say the wrong thing) I think a Dealer has to be working on a 30% or greater mark up to cover costs and risk. 

This sounds like a very scary business plan, than add eBay and Craigslist into this. It seems to me all the risk is in the dealers hands, the worse the seller of the book has is a questionable low ball price which he doesn't have to take. I now see why Boardies try and sell on the board first. 

I sell a few books on eBay and often I get an offer that is very low and I wonder why did they waste my time and theirs, I wonder is It because they are hoping for that one killer deal to cover all the bad ones that they had to make or are they  *@$%, I don't know? 

I do know I wouldn't have sold the DKNR 2x for $350 either. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, Grib said:

So you figure at $350 you are being low balled, maybe. As a non dealer but a business person I wonder are you? If he was to pay you $600 book or $500 per book would he make enough to justify holding a book long enough to sell for the "over going rate"? This means money (inventory) sitting and not making any return on investment until the sale. Cost of show/store, plus the risk of the books value going down (all you need is Miller to be involved in another Spirit movie or say the wrong thing) I think a Dealer has to be working on a 30% or greater mark up to cover costs and risk. 

This sounds like a very scary business plan, than add eBay and Craigslist into this. It seems to me all the risk is in the dealers hands, the worse the seller of the book has is a questionable low ball price which he doesn't have to take. I now see why Boardies try and sell on the board first. 

I sell a few books on eBay and often I get an offer that is very low and I wonder why did they waste my time and theirs, I wonder is It because they are hoping for that one killer deal to cover all the bad ones that they had to make or are they  *@$%, I don't know? 

I do know I wouldn't have sold the DKNR 2x for $350 either. 

Not trying to be mean, or snide or anything, but I ignored the meat of your post because:

My OP was a joke referencing South Park and the Loch Ness Monster.

I'll actually read this post after I hit "submit", but my guess is that it is all irrelevant...

[theCapraAegagrus]

Also: The Dark Knight Returns #1 First Print CGC 9.8 SS (Miller signature alone) has sold for over $1k multiple times, recently.

I wouldn't consider selling mine, but if I did, I wouldn't be asking for less than that.

[Grib]

1 minute ago, TwoPiece said:

Also: The Dark Knight Returns #1 First Print CGC 9.8 SS (Miller signature alone) has sold for over $1k multiple times, recently.

I wouldn't consider selling mine, but if I did, I wouldn't be asking for less than that.

I agree. NM could have been 9.2 to 9.8 as we know and there is a major price jump between the numbers. A 9.2 @ $600 isn't an insult a 9.8 it is. 

[comicdonna]

23 hours ago, 1Cool said:

  I know Gator has described his buying practices but I've not heard many other dealers talk about how much the typically pay for hot keys.

I sold Gator about 2/3's of my Action run in 2013, that won a best GA set award.  (Keys and non keys) Basically, I submitted my ask for each book, leaving a little room for profit.  Rick  sent the money, with bulk packaging instructions, and he paid for the shipping.  It was a great selling experience for me, with zero regrets.  I feel  I turned out way better, than if I chose to consign to an auction house.   

 

If I had  a key book to sell at a con, I would go to Rick's booth first.

[Westy Steve]

5 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

I sold Gator about 2/3's of my Action run in 2013, that won a best GA set award.  (Keys and non keys) Basically, I submitted my ask for each book, leaving a little room for profit.  Rick  sent the money, with bulk packaging instructions, and he paid for the shipping.  It was a great selling experience for me, with zero regrets.  I feel  I turned out way better, than if I chose to consign to an auction house.   

 

If I had  a key book to sell at a con, I would go to Rick's booth first.

Congrats on your 30,000th post?   Sending you a PM.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Westy Steve

[the blob]

On 3/27/2019 at 2:44 PM, romanheart said:

I can't imagine a dealer paying close to market value for a key, even in a package deal, or what would be the point trying to make a profit off of it.

I'm not sure they are willing to share business models anyway but I'm watching this thread just in case 

Dealers pay that here? I sold my x-men 1 here and a big dealer was willing to pay the most. I probably could have done better on eBay but risked the chance of a buyer deciding it was A 1.5 not a 1.8, etc. He probably knew he had an easy $100-200 flip to a customer.

Edited March 28, 2019 by the blob

[Peachpit]

it seems if they offer you 60 to 75%/Fair market value is not a reality!!???

[shadroch]

On 3/27/2019 at 12:28 PM, NP_Gresham said:

Consignments are 10% on comiclink and they often get over GPA on a keys.

Why would you give a dealer more with less exposure for your books?

Why would anyone sell today for cash when they can possibly get more in four to six months?  Maybe their landlord is the type that doesn't put much faith in promises, or the auto financing company isn't willing to wait before they take back their car. Should their daughter sit in jail until Josh gets around to sending the bail money?

[Peachpit]

IRS wants 28% capital gains on comics art and gold

 

[blazingbob]

It continues to amaze me how few seem to understand the "cost of capital".  

In addition the use of GPA as the negotiator.  

While I like GPA it represents a sale to a customer,  that customer is no longer looking for the book that created this entry.  Each entry in GPA are buyers that are basically no longer in the market.  The seller or buyer/dealer is now trying to replicate or create a higher price for the item that just sold in order to negotiate a reasonable buying point.  That buyer may or may not exist depending on what book it is.  And with the lovely charts that are posted almost weekly on the website why exactly would any dealer be paying close to the last sale?  

This brings in Time and cost in order to sell that item.  

How many shows,  cost to list on ebay, if that is the business model, listing on their website or hopefully they have a buyer already in place.

Everyone seems to love the auction/crack houses where they give advances on your stuff.  Of course they have money,  this stuff is gone in 30 days.  They collect whether you make money or not.  They have NO interest in how your books sell,  they make money anyway.  Their risk is not having enough Crack.   

The closer a seller gets to 90% of ask the cost of capital to me is consignment.  Why would I pay you 90% if I can pay you when the item sells.  While that money may seem important to you so that you are rid of the book it makes NO financial sense for me to pay that right away.  This is true of most dealers. 

Buying percentages in today's market are driven by what keys they are,  not just a key which can cover a wide range of books.  

 

 

 

 

[shadroch]

I'd think it depends on the books and the dealers. If Dealer A has three AF15s in 4.0, he may not be willing to spend a chunk of cash on a fourth copy that won't sell quickly. On the other hand, he might have just sold his last AF 15, be flush with cash, and need the book. 

You might think Spider-Man 252 is a key book, but a dealer who has a dozen may disagree. What Metropolis thinks is a key book will vary from what Dannys Discount Comics thinks is key.

[Stefan_W]

On 3/24/2024 at 11:28 AM, blazingbob said:

 

The closer a seller gets to 90% of ask the cost of capital to me is consignment.  Why would I pay you 90% if I can pay you when the item sells.  While that money may seem important to you so that you are rid of the book it makes NO financial sense for me to pay that right away.  This is true of most dealers. 

 

When I sell comics I sell at full market value on Ebay and take the 15% hit, accept the risk of selling on CL and take a 10% hit plus the amount it goes below value (which may be a lot), and when I sell in person I ask for 85-90% of full market value. Works for me. 

When I buy books I pay close to value for a raw key books and expect to get a steep discount on filler books. Most people have no ability to sell filler in any meaningful way so my offers typically go over well with people selling their collections to me. I then clean and press the keys to increase the value on them, and I take the filler to comic shows to offload a few boxes to make room for more buying along with replenishing a bit of the cash I set aside for buying collections. Again, works for me. 

The biggest thing is a deal has to make sense for both sides. When I buy collections I make offers that are super reasonable to the person selling. When I sell off books I offer them below market value so people have a reason to open up their wallets.

So often I see prices at comic shows that just make me shake my head. It is like they are hoping someone comes along who does not know how much the comic is actually worth. I also sometimes see completely unrealistic price expectations from a few people selling off their collections. I once had a person offer me their collection of 5,000 comics that she said has a total value of $18k based on MCS prices (with no books worth over $20 to show me), and she offered me a "deal" at $14k for that collection. The math suggests those books were listed on MCS shop for $4 or under which makes them books I throw into my dollar bins at shows. Full value to me for that collection would be roughly 10% of what she wanted for it, so different universes in terms of valuations. It takes all kinds to fill a freeway. 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 3/24/2024 at 11:28 AM, blazingbob said:

While I like GPA it represents a sale to a customer, that customer is no longer looking for the book that created this entry. 

Why do I have so many copies of X-Men #137?  

[Shadow]

On 3/24/2024 at 11:28 AM, blazingbob said:

It continues to amaze me how few seem to understand the "cost of capital".  

In addition the use of GPA as the negotiator.  

While I like GPA it represents a sale to a customer,  that customer is no longer looking for the book that created this entry.  Each entry in GPA are buyers that are basically no longer in the market.  The seller or buyer/dealer is now trying to replicate or create a higher price for the item that just sold in order to negotiate a reasonable buying point.  That buyer may or may not exist depending on what book it is.  And with the lovely charts that are posted almost weekly on the website why exactly would any dealer be paying close to the last sale?  

This brings in Time and cost in order to sell that item.  

How many shows,  cost to list on ebay, if that is the business model, listing on their website or hopefully they have a buyer already in place.

Everyone seems to love the auction/crack houses where they give advances on your stuff.  Of course they have money,  this stuff is gone in 30 days.  They collect whether you make money or not.  They have NO interest in how your books sell,  they make money anyway.  Their risk is not having enough Crack.   

The closer a seller gets to 90% of ask the cost of capital to me is consignment.  Why would I pay you 90% if I can pay you when the item sells.  While that money may seem important to you so that you are rid of the book it makes NO financial sense for me to pay that right away.  This is true of most dealers. 

Buying percentages in today's market are driven by what keys they are,  not just a key which can cover a wide range of books.  

 

 

 

 

Timely conversation with you this week!  Bob and I had a brief conversation around this exact topic on Tuesday.

I'm going to bring some books to C2E2 for Bob to look at for trade. Flip side of this is on the seller and how much time and effort it's worth. For me, at this stage in life, time is more valuable. Note: I have no intention of selling my collection anytime soon (measured in years) but I do want to clear out under copies. For years I've said I would post them here... Clearly unsuccessful getting around to that.  

[Shadow]

On 3/24/2024 at 1:13 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

Why do I have so many copies of X-Men #137?  

Because it's a great comic.  

[Tony S]

On 3/27/2019 at 1:13 PM, Catwomancomics said:

Between eBay and PayPal they take 13%.  Why would anyone let a dealer offer them less is crazy, especially for a hot key.

One word: 

1099-K.
eBay will be sending you one.  The dealer will not. 

[BA773]

On 3/27/2019 at 6:25 PM, Westy Steve said:

In your experience, what percent of market value do dealers pay knowledgeable sellers for key books at shows?  Like if I brought a key book worth $1,000 to a show with the idea of selling it, how much could I hope to get?  Maybe as a percentage range.  75% to 85%?

I'm speaking about reasonably "hot" keys here.

I hope this is an acceptable question for this forum.

Steve

Nothing they are just motherf*chers who steal you... had a knowledge who was one of them and in one of our disscusion he told me: i pay 1, i sell 100.

[Bookery]

Not only does it depend upon what the "key" is, it depends on when it is being sold.  During the bubble,  a dealer might pay "full value" on an issue, because the odds were that in 2-3 months it would be worth even more, so his investment seemed relatively safe.  For the past year, the exact opposite has been true. 

And why would I pay 90% right now for anything, assuming there is anything such as an accurate FMV (which there isn't).  Depending upon the credit card (and today nearly all sales in my shop are done with credit cards) the dealer can be charged as much as 4%.  And for the time being I can get 5% on a CD or money market.  Therefore buying at 90% means assuming I do sell it in a timely fashion, I'm just breaking even.  Not only that, but if it's an expensive book and I've sold it to one of my regulars, chances are they won't have any more money to spend for awhile.  So I've just made nothing and lost other near-future sales to boot.

As has been said, it is rare for anyone to sell me just one "hot" book.  It's more likely I'll be offered a low-grade X-Men #1 mixed in with 100 okay under-$100 books and 1000 bulk books for the dollar bins.  And as anyone who has ever set up at shows knows, even at $1 you are very lucky if you can move even half of your inventory.

People on these threads who tell you there is just one specific way you should sell are delusional.  Depending upon the mix, the timing, whether you expect cash in hand now or a check after an auction completes 6 months from now, whether you want a known quantity up front, or can accept the vagaries of an auction (good or bad), are you expecting the market to rise in the near future, fall, or remain steady... all of this must be taken into account depending upon one's circumstances.  Whether selling to dealers, on consignment, to auction houses, on eBay, or driving out to that remote house because someone on Craig's List will pay you "full value"... each has their benefits and detriments.  There is no one-size-fits-all answer.