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1:XXX variants
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If a book is 1:100 incentive, does that mean if the book sells 30,000 copies the absolute most of the variants produced would be 300? And do they automatically produce 300 variants and then distribute them? Or would they still only produce a variant is a retailer ordered 100 issues? In which case, there would be even less than 300 copies since not every dealer out of that 30,000 is ordered at least 100 issues? 

Edited by SBRobin
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4 hours ago, SBRobin said:

If a book is 1:100 incentive, does that mean if the book sells 30,000 copies the absolute most of the variants produced would be 300? And do they automatically produce 300 variants and then distribute them? Or would they still only produce a variant is a retyailer ordered 100 issues? In which case, there would be even less than 300 copies since not every dealer out of that 30,000 is ordered at least 100 issues? 

Good question.  This would help me in my understanding of the books I collect.

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4 hours ago, SBRobin said:

If a book is 1:100 incentive, does that mean if the book sells 30,000 copies the absolute most of the variants produced would be 300? And do they automatically produce 300 variants and then distribute them? Or would they still only produce a variant is a retyailer ordered 100 issues? In which case, there would be even less than 300 copies since not every dealer out of that 30,000 is ordered at least 100 issues? 

 

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Thanks for the link. Interesting read. It appears they're asking the same question I am, and unfortunately the consensus is that no one has any idea. Was trying to figure out it an incentive book was worth the price. My main concern is, even without knowing the exact print run, there is a possibility of the publishers printing way more issues than the dealer qualifying numbers. Eg., only one dealer orders 100 copies of a 1:100 variant, woiuld the publisher then only print 1 copy of that incentive variant? Seems no one knows. I appreciate the link. 

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8 minutes ago, SBRobin said:

Thanks for the link. Interesting read. It appears they're asking the same question I am, and unfortunately the consensus is that no one has any idea. Was trying to figure out it an incentive book was worth the price. My main concern is, even without knowing the exact print run, there is a possibility of the publishers printing way more issues than the dealer qualifying numbers. Eg., only one dealer orders 100 copies of a 1:100 variant, woiuld the publisher then only print 1 copy of that incentive variant? Seems no one knows. I appreciate the link. 

People know what "1:XXX" means: it means how many copies of the regular book a retailer has to order to obtain one copy of the variant.

What no one but the printer and publishers knows is the actual number of these books that get printed. 

Lots...and lots and lots...of people run around the internet, thinking "1:XXX must be how you can figure out the print run!" 

And while that is appealing because it's so easy...it's wildly incorrect.

Obviously, no one is going to print a single copy if only one order qualified. That's not how printing works, or has ever worked. The very, VERY rare instances of publishers printing less than 1,000 of anything are because they arranged...and paid a hefty price for...those special books to be done. Technology has made printing a little cheaper these days....but not much, since the basic mechanics are still the same. The bottom line is, if someone's giving you a hard number, it's probably because they're trying to sell one to you.

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And yes, the publishers often print way more than qualifying orders. We knows this because, ever since the retailer incentive programs were launched in the early to mid 00s, there have frequently been "dumps" of these additional quantities. It happens on a regular basis. I own hundreds of copies of ratio variants that I bought from publisher dumps...I didn't buy them from retailers with qualifying orders.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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Just now, RockMyAmadeus said:

And yes, the publishers often print way more than qualifying dealers.

That seems wildly unfair to the dealers. Unless you're someone like Midtown or Mile HIgh, most LCSs aren't going to purchase enough copies to get a 50 or 100 variant. If they are getting an incentive variant, they should have a guarantee that the book is rare and be rewarded for purchasing all of those copies to chase a variant. Sucks that the publisher could then print an extra 500 copies due to some special arrangement they have with another company that doesn't require them to publish the regular issues. 

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11 minutes ago, SBRobin said:

That seems wildly unfair to the dealers. Unless you're someone like Midtown or Mile HIgh, most LCSs aren't going to purchase enough copies to get a 50 or 100 variant. If they are getting an incentive variant, they should have a guarantee that the book is rare and be rewarded for purchasing all of those copies to chase a variant. Sucks that the publisher could then print an extra 500 copies due to some special arrangement they have with another company that doesn't require them to publish the regular issues. 

Why does it seem unfair to dealers? Publishers can print whatever they want, in whatever quantities they want. There's never been any promise made, nor implied, by the incentives. The publishers have never said "...and we'll only print to qualifying orders" with a few rare exceptions (like VEI.) It's the way that retailers have, unfortunately, allowed the game to be played. The way to stop it is to have no one order the incentives, no matter who qualifies...but that would never happen.

Ratio incentives only mean one thing: "Order X amount of the regular, and you can obtain 1 copy of the variant." That's it. Nothing beyond that stated or implied, or has ever been promised. 

The publishers aren't doing anything unethical. And, they *do* offer assistance to the retailers by not immediately dumping those variants on the market...which they certainly could...and keeping those numbers a mystery.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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Here is a good, old, verifiable example. Valen the Outcast 1 in 2012 by Boom had a CGC only Jusko variant. The only way for a retailer to get one was to order 200 of the regular, $1 cover issue. Boom stated they printed 500 of the Jusko book, and then, along with Bleeding Cool, made a video of them burning the ungraded, unearned copies (still easy to find the video on line). Then, Bleeding Cool claimed only 25 retailers earned the book, implying that the other 475 were burned. But a month or two later, the CGC Census showed 75, which would make you think that even though only 25 were earned by retailers, Boom had to have more available as they may not have known how many they would need ahead of time. 

Now, jump ahead to 2019. 25 earned, 75 in the census, most of us would think there were 75 max in the world. Boom decides to sell it's back stock of retailer incentive books and offers 152 Valen the Outcast 1 CGC only Jusko variant to Jesse James Comics, which he purchased and is currently selling them on ebay. I got a few of them, and found that none of the CGC certification numbers are in the Census, so they have to be added back in to prove they exist!

So, what I have learned from this is trust nothing you read, nothing you are told, and nothing in the Census. Clearly, at some point, CGC either removed 150 some books from the census, for some unknown reason, or they never added them, again for some undisclosed reason. I have asked and gotten no real response. I believe Boom sent in 500 Valen 1's Jusko variants, and had them prescreened. Then, they burned on video the books that were not 9.8 candidates, slabbing the rest, for a total around 225 9.8's. 

I don't think anyone was trying to pull a fast one or cheat anyone. After all, it was Valen the Outcast, not a Spider-Man book. And I think someone at both Boom and CGC made some mistakes when it comes to the census, and just didn't care enough to fix it. 

But, when you think you have on of only 10 or 50 or 100 or even 500, don't you believe it!

 

 

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53 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Why does it seem unfair to dealers?

I don't know. I guess because of the implication that the only way to obtain one would be for a dealer to meet the qualifying number. But you are right that they don't ever claim that so I guess they can do what they want. I unfortunately already bought a 1:100 variant today thinking this was the case, but won't fall for that anymore. I appreciate the points you made in the other thread. 

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39 minutes ago, SBRobin said:

I don't know. I guess because of the implication that the only way to obtain one would be for a dealer to meet the qualifying number. But you are right that they don't ever claim that so I guess they can do what they want. I unfortunately already bought a 1:100 variant today thinking this was the case, but won't fall for that anymore. I appreciate the points you made in the other thread. 

Good. Now, going forward, you're armed with information to help you make a better informed purchase. I've always said that people should buy what they want. If it makes you happy, and you can afford it, go for it. But do it with eyes wide open, knowing what you're buying. And, if you choose to overpay...at least you're doing it fully informed.

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