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Facsimile comics being sold on eBay...
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69 posts in this topic

I'm pretty sure there are ways to determine whether a document is old or not. Whether or not CGC has any in-house forensics, who knows? I would think that with high-end books, that they would be looking for signs of forgeries. 

I understand that in the art world, forgeries are rampant and there are all sorts of techniques to identify actual works from forgeries. I expect that our hobby will one day need to employ those sorts of experts. 

If CGC stays ahead of the curve, it will greatly increase the value of their service. Who would buy a 5 or 6 figure unslabbed book once it becomes known that counterfeits are out there?

 

Edited by CycleGirl
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1 minute ago, CycleGirl said:

I'm pretty sure there are ways to determine whether a document is old or not. Whether or not CGC has any in-house forensics, who knows? I would think that with high-end books, that they would be looking for signs of forgeries. 

I understand that in the art world, forgeries are rampant and there are all sorts of techniques to identify actual works from forgeries. I expect that our hobby will one day need to employ those sorts of experts. 

If CGC stays ahead of the curve, it will greatly increase the value of their service. Who would buy a 5 or 6 figure unslabbed book once it becomes known that counterfeits are out there.

 

The good news....so far...is that comics are relatively difficult to counterfeit, and relatively cheap enough...still...for it not to be worth it. But make no mistake....comics aren't anywhere near as difficult to forge as currency, and new examples are forged within days of being issued. What keeps wide-spread forgery at bay is the cost, not the intricacy. The difference...the major difference...is that most counterfeit currency is not 40-80 years old, and when you combine aging with exacting reproduction....it's still not worth it.

Yet.

Let's hope we can keep the wolves at bay for a while, at least.

NGC and PCGS employ skilled counterfeit detectors, people who are familiar with the intricate nuance of die production and marking that takes place with the minting process. It may be that CGC will eventually have to employ the same type of skilllset to weed out counterfeit books. After all....comics were printed on large machines that mass produced these books...there will be details that the counterfeiters will get wrong an awful lot before they manage to get them right.

Here's an article that describes some of the process coin authenticators go through:

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6557/discovery-of-a-lifetime-1854-s-five-dollar/

 

 

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2 hours ago, Point Five said:

hm

1182171849_ScreenShot2019-04-12at10_40_56PM.thumb.png.950c0dff6700ee67a1b34837de702945.png

lol

Looks like the AF 15 was pulled as were most of the others. Not sure why this one is still running but off to report it as well.

 

This reaction tells me that the seller knows precisely what he/she/they is/are doing, and is/are doing it on purpose.

Did we manage to have an impact? I hope so. 

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I don't think that the Avengers facsimile would pass as a counterfeit to anyone looking closely at the printing. Full disclosure, I worked in ink jet printing for a number of years. Even though imagining wasn't my area, I did pick up some things. Anyway, the text really gives it away. One thing that printing presses really do well is text. Diagonal lines are PERFECTLY smooth with a printing press. When you scan and then print with a digital process this is always approximated by pixels. Digital can make a vertical line without any artifacts, but with a diagonal line there will always be some jaggedness however small. It's pretty well hidden with high dpi (dots per inch). It happens in both the scanning and printing. I would look at the back inside cover, the W's near the bottom in the words "Waves" and "Wacs". The edges don't look smooth as they would be when printed from a printing press. If you compare this printing with a silver age book from your collection, you will see what I mean. Black text is always beautiful in the real thing. Unfortunately, the photo is not that high of resolution, so I'm not sure how it would look under magnification. Anyway, that would be one thing that would be easy to look for.

The color printing on the image panels would also be different but I'm not exactly sure in what way. Printing press people do all sorts of things to get pantone colors to look how they want on the page. Digital printing has a completely different way of doing things. Under magnification I expect this would be apparent. 

Oh, did anyone notice how in picture #5, you can see how ragged the cut is of the front cover? It looks like it was done with a dull paper cutter.

I suspect that the process used to make this was something like scanning the comic with a regular scanner. Printing with a color laserjet or maybe an inkjet, cutting with paper cutter, and then stapling. I expect that a lot of us on this board would see it as counterfeit if it were in hand. It just wouldn't look or even feel right. 

You know, I don't want to give those people any money, but I would love to get some of these books in hand to get some high-res scans. I think that it would be good to disseminate to people what to look for.

The people really at risk are the more casual or beginning collectors I think. I ran into a collector who thought they found an X-men #1 with this book. The technology is definitely out there to fool a lot of "casual" collectors. 

1377007269_x-menamazingadventures.jpg.90b7614eea999bf572ce0d11844df085.jpg

Edited by CycleGirl
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I believe these would be easy to detect in hand. From the dryness, color and feel of the paper to the toning on the staples, etc etc... it would be nearly impossible to create a replica that could fool experts -- or even most astute collectors. As someone mentioned, even the cut doesn't look right.

These are the kind of fakes you may see crop up in disreputable antique shops or flea market vendors. They get the kind of buyers who may just take the bait thinking they are getting an under-priced gem. A con often requires a greedy buyer who thinks HE is putting one over on a naive seller.

 

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The hobby will die anyway, all comics will be brown and brittle in a relatively short time.  Good quality reprints will be the only option.

The entire GA and SA (maybe even BA:nyah:) should be reprinted.  Not now, but in the future. 

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