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No Graders Notes on a 9.6
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88 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

Off-topic, but, what instrument(s) do you play?

I'm a brass player. Trombone is my main instrument, but I can play the entire family. 

I can also noodle around on clarinet, violin, and piano. 

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I would want feedback

As a teacher, if a student asked where they missed marks, I tell them (or if its something like a paper, I leave feedback so they understand why their paper was graded the way it was).

The same should apply to comics but sadly, does not. It is an opinion. And that opinion should have a basis. Even one note saying "tiniest flaw here" to explain. It is things like this that make me avoid grading books. I like the idea of slabbing and protecting but I don't like that it is an opinion. That a book could be an 8.0 to some, an 8.5 to a few and a 7.5 to a few more. If there are no flaws explained it should be a 9.8

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I recently sent my first books in 14 total, grades came back 8-9.8, 3-9.6 and 3-9.4 NO graders notes for any. Personally I'd like notes on anything less than a 9.8 so I know what to look for next time but at the very least I'd like to know about a 9.4  two of the books that got 9.4's  I'd have bet money they were 9.8's. Is it possible they add the notes at a later time?

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40 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

I would want feedback

As a teacher, if a student asked where they missed marks, I tell them (or if its something like a paper, I leave feedback so they understand why their paper was graded the way it was).

The same should apply to comics but sadly, does not. It is an opinion. And that opinion should have a basis. Even one note saying "tiniest flaw here" to explain. It is things like this that make me avoid grading books. I like the idea of slabbing and protecting but I don't like that it is an opinion. That a book could be an 8.0 to some, an 8.5 to a few and a 7.5 to a few more. If there are no flaws explained it should be a 9.8

I understand completely.  

But please try to understand it from the grader's point of view. They're strongly encouraged to keep their numbers up (it's a volume driven operation) and a typical day in their life is anything but predictable. Everything can be going like clockwork and then you get a box of books that completely derails your day. So when a grader gets to grade something a little easier (like high grade modern books) they tend to take fewer notes because there are fewer flaws. And many modern books fall into the 9.4 - 9.6 range, which means they have a dent or two, or a spine stress line or two, or something else that keeps them from 9.8 or higher. These are flaws that are so common they're generally not even worth taking the time to enter into the system, because from a grader's point of view, it's all about time. 

So if I had a book that I thought was a 9.8 and it didn't reach that level, I'd look it over again. I've done this with a number of 9.6's, and sure enough, there's usually a reason that's pretty easy to spot. If you really want to achieve the lofty status of 9.8 or higher, inspect the books thoroughly, take photos and notes of your own, and do everything possible to ensure their safe arrival to CGC. I would also suggest placing them in clean, sturdy mylar bags with large backing boards so they're not damaged as they make their way through the CGC system. 

Even doing all this, there are probably still going to be times when you'll be disappointed. As with so many things in life, you win some, you lose some...   :foryou:

 

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4 minutes ago, billsid said:

I recently sent my first books in 14 total, grades came back 8-9.8, 3-9.6 and 3-9.4 NO graders notes for any. Personally I'd like notes on anything less than a 9.8 so I know what to look for next time but at the very least I'd like to know about a 9.4  two of the books that got 9.4's  I'd have bet money they were 9.8's. Is it possible they add the notes at a later time?

 If there aren't any notes now, there probably won't be. For a more detailed explanation, please see my response to comicginger1789...

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1 minute ago, The Lions Den said:

 If there aren't any notes now, there probably won't be. For a more detailed explanation, please see my response to comicginger1789...

I figured as much, thanks for the reply.:)

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Yeah but, even if their notes is "small indent on spine" or "minor scrape near title logo" or whatever, if they took a note why can't the person who sent the book in see it?

Surely CGC is set up so that there are existing comments on books and when they enter it into the database, something is put in there. My guess, because it is a business and mistakes are made, is that whoever entered it in did not add a note like they were supposed to. To me, I view no notes on something imperfect as someone somewhere cutting corners or making an error that should be fixed (ie regrading for free if the original grader's notes are lost). And if they took no notes, well why isn't it a 9.8?

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29 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

Yeah but, even if their notes is "small indent on spine" or "minor scrape near title logo" or whatever, if they took a note why can't the person who sent the book in see it?

Surely CGC is set up so that there are existing comments on books and when they enter it into the database, something is put in there. My guess, because it is a business and mistakes are made, is that whoever entered it in did not add a note like they were supposed to. To me, I view no notes on something imperfect as someone somewhere cutting corners or making an error that should be fixed (ie regrading for free if the original grader's notes are lost). And if they took no notes, well why isn't it a 9.8?

Hi. In my experience, the owner of the books should be able to access any notes that were taken on any of their books that were graded by CGC. They're posted on the website when the grades for that invoice are announced. I believe they're available for about six months. And you're correct, the notes taken on any book in the database would generally still be available, but CGC now charges a small fee for those. I'm not sure I fully understand your comment about errors being made regarding the notes, but when a pre-grader enters their notes, they usually note the majority of the flaws on the book. The finalizer of the book would then add anything they felt was significant that the pre-grader overlooked. In this way, even if errors were made, there is someone with more experience in a position to correct them. And if there are no notes, it would likely be for the reasons I already touched on in my previous response. I certainly hope this helps you understand how the system works. I agree that there is always room for improvement, but what I think people tend to overlook is the sheer volume of books that CGC has to deal with every week. It is indeed "The Avalanche of Wonder."  :foryou:

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34 minutes ago, Clodhopper said:

I think what you're missing is that CGC doesn't note flaws that can be seen through the slab. It's the owners' responsibility to be able to identify flaws that CGC feel are "obvious". They can only hold your hand for so long.

Right but the original poster could not see what made it a 9.6 instead of a 9.8. I feel regardless, some note should be put to explain.

And I feel I have a good grasp of grading. But at the end of the day, it is still an opinion. Just like it is an opinion from CGC graders. They have a guideline, sure, but multiple lines and parts are open to interpretation. As I have said before, it is why I can think a book is 9.0, you could think it is 9.2 and CGC could grade it 8.5. 

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There are 9.8 books in 9.4 and 9.6 slabs. There are 9.4 books in 9.6 and 9.8 slabs. Grading IS subjective. But it's not so subjective that an average idea of what constitutes a particular CGC grade is not discoverable. There are a MILLION+ 9.8s out there. You see thousands of these 9.8s, you develop an eye for what that means to CGC.

Because of that, it's reasonable to question why a certain book graded a certain way. Not all graders grade the same. Not all graders see flaws the same. What may be a 9,8-limiting flaw to one grader is not to another. Therefore...having a note to tell me what the grader saw helps the customer understand what the grader saw. Just because a flaw is obvious inside the case does not mean that I agree that it's a limiting flaw...or that the grader does. 

Not having notes means I'm going to assume, if I thought the book was a 9.8, that the grader hammered the book unnecessarily, and I will send that book back in for review...or I'll just submit fewer books.

Both are bad, for me AND CGC. I don't want to send in book for review. I don't want to submit fewer books. But I deal with many books "on the edge", where the only value is in a 9.8....and a 9.6 or less would have cost me less money if I'd tossed the money in the fireplace. And if there's a hammer loose in the grading room, my business model fails.

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^Right so you deserve to know

On a separate belief, I think it is extremely risky to chase 9.8's. For the reasons you and I have mentioned, it can become a gamble that either pays off or results in a waste of time. I appreciate you 9.8 chasers but it's not a business model I would use. 

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23 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

a typical day in their life is anything but predictable. Everything can be going like clockwork and then you get a box of books that completely derails your day.

Could you expand on this?  What sort of box of books could derail your day? 

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Not too many years ago, grader notes were often completely missing, especially with lower tiers and Moderns. Over the years the strictness of the grading has waxed and waned. Look at the grades on many first generation labels, circa 2000 - 2003, and 9.8's were not often seen. Because of the introduction of pressing, we now see more 9.8's . One problem I have noticed is that sometimes the press will fade and what once was a 9.8 now have visible folds. The really good pressers know how to press and wait to see if the creases return. So, my point here is the submission may initially look good, 9.8 candidate, but if enough time has passed before actually getting graded, maybe not. 

RMA, please, as a favor to me, please don't reply to my comment with some analysis trying to show my comments are wrong. I am currently not in the best of health and don't feel like arguing with you. My comment is a personal observation from thousands of submissions. It's not a big deal, it's not a radical statement, it's just a comment. Please. 

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2 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

 

RMA, please, as a favor to me, please don't reply to my comment with some analysis trying to show my comments are wrong. I am currently not in the best of health and don't feel like arguing with you. My comment is a personal observation from thousands of submissions. It's not a big deal, it's not a radical statement, it's just a comment. Please. 

Why are you calling other members out? If you don't want to argue with someone, the power is entirely in your hands: don't argue. If someone's comments bother you, either ignore them mentally or put them on ignore.

Calling members out like this is completely inappropriate.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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4 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Why are you calling other members out? If you don't want to argue with someone, the power is entirely in your hands: don't argue. If someone's comments bother you, either ignore them mentally or put them on ignore.

Calling members out like this is completely inappropriate.

I didn't call you out, I just asked that you oblige with my request to not drive me to argument. I also mentioned I am in ill health. I should be able to reply to a discussion without incurring your wrath. 

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Just now, Bomber-Bob said:

I didn't call you out, I just asked that you oblige with my request to not drive me to argument. I also mentioned I am in ill health. I should be able to reply to a discussion without incurring your wrath. 

Calling other members out like this, out of the blue, when they have not interacted with you, is inappropriate. No one is "driven" to argument. If you don't want to argue, don't argue. You're free to comment as much as anyone and everyone else, without someone coming along and "requesting" that you specifically not reply to them.

Singling other members out like this in public is a "WTH...?" move. You're better than this. I hope this is just a symptom of your illness, and I hope you get better soon.

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7 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Calling other members out like this, out of the blue, when they have not interacted with you, is inappropriate. No one is "driven" to argument. If you don't want to argue, don't argue. You're free to comment as much as anyone and everyone else, without someone coming along and "requesting" that you specifically not reply to them.

Singling other members out like this in public is a "WTH...?" move. You're better than this. I hope this is just a symptom of your illness, and I hope you get better soon.

I sent you a PM to keep my medical condition somewhat private. Again, I only asked that you not drive me to argument, which you did anyway. Sorry but I will avoid you in the future. 

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9 hours ago, BlowUpTheMoon said:

Could you expand on this?  What sort of box of books could derail your day? 

I certainly can expand on this. I've had invoices that took hours to get through. Invoices where every book was not only difficult to grade, but each book had missing pages, restoration, pieces cut out, tape, detached covers, etc. So not only do all those notes have to be entered into the system, they also have to be put on the label as well, and then double checked by a restoration expert to make sure all the restoration information is entered correctly (and spelled correctly, too). It's mentally exhausting. I remember one book (I believe it was a Famous Monsters Yearbook) where the first 16 pages were printed twice and the remaining pages were omitted; that one took quite some time to figure out, and required the help of another senior grader. So you see, grading comics isn't all fun and games...it's a lot of work.      

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