Kon_Jelly Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 So I recently bought a book off of eBay - it's nothing special, just an older ASM Annual that cost about $12 or so. Seller shipped it via media mail with tracking, and the tracking info says it was delivered 2 weeks ago. Problem is, I never got it. I submitted a "missing mail" request with USPS, but so far nothing. I'm assuming it was delivered to a nearby building, but it's an office park so there's not just one or two people to check with to see if they got it by mistake. The seller has been understanding and we've been in contact about it, but I think we're at a point where the book is just not going to get to me. What should my path be here? Since I never received the book I should be due a refund, but according to the info the seller has the book was delivered. There was no insurance on the book, so he can't get his money back from the USPS, so no matter what I think at least one of us is screwed. If he won't issue a refund, who will eBay side with on this one? I feel like the delivered status on the tracking is going to be a problem for me. Any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 To be honest, due to the fact that the book was shipped media mail, it's a small amount, and it appears the seller did not do anything wrong, I would just let it go. Spiderturtle and ThothAmon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krismusic Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 I have had a issue like this with a non comic item from ebay I asked the seller to check and they were not helpful. note if you wait to long after it says it was delivered eBay will not be able to refund or help if its past 30 days of receipt of delivery. So if you are going to have E bay intervene you might want to consider your time constraints. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon_Jelly Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said: To be honest, due to the fact that the book was shipped media mail, it's a small amount, and it appears the seller did not do anything wrong, I would just let it go. That was actually my thought as well. I guess I wanted to be sure I wasn't being naive about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadGenius Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Seller did nothing wrong here, so it doesn't seem like he should be on the hook for a refund. Your dispute is with USPS, not the seller, but with no insurance on the shipment you may have no other choice than to eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Jack Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 I may be in the minority on this, but I feel the seller assumes some responsibility of risk as the cost of doing business. As a seller, I could purchase insurance to cover myself. I've had Amazon shipments misdelivered a few times, and while the tracking showed it was delivered, I contacted Amazon and the situation was taken care of and new product was shipped. Granted that's different from an independent seller (as Amazon is huge), but as a seller myself, if I don't purchase insurance (or offer it), I consider that I may be on the hook for a refund or at the very least, doing the research with the post office. More about customer service at this point versus who's really liable. And in the end, if a buyer disputes with their credit card company (or paypal), and the tracking shows delivered (especially on uninsured items), the seller normally will not assume liability for the dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderturtle Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) On 4/18/2019 at 7:15 AM, Bomber-Bob said: To be honest, due to the fact that the book was shipped media mail, it's a small amount, and it appears the seller did not do anything wrong, I would just let it go. the key here is the "small amount". Usually if it's not a "small amount" I always require a signature confirmation. Of course anyone at the address can sign it but usually I've had less problems when signature requirement as part of the shipment Edited April 19, 2019 by Spiderturtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon_Jelly Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Donald Jack said: I may be in the minority on this, but I feel the seller assumes some responsibility of risk as the cost of doing business. As a seller, I could purchase insurance to cover myself. I've had Amazon shipments misdelivered a few times, and while the tracking showed it was delivered, I contacted Amazon and the situation was taken care of and new product was shipped. Granted that's different from an independent seller (as Amazon is huge), but as a seller myself, if I don't purchase insurance (or offer it), I consider that I may be on the hook for a refund or at the very least, doing the research with the post office. More about customer service at this point versus who's really liable. And in the end, if a buyer disputes with their credit card company (or paypal), and the tracking shows delivered (especially on uninsured items), the seller normally will not assume liability for the dispute. Well that was my other thought as well. When I look at it from my perspective, I paid for something that I never received. That should be grounds for a refund I would expect. But from the seller's perspective the item was shipped and marked as delivered, so they don't have any proof that something wrong happened. I really don't want to get into a spat over a couple of bucks, especially since I know he actually did ship the book and the USPS lost it, but I also feel like I shouldn't have to bear responsibility when I never received what I ordered. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the Tiger Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Sig confirmation as noted is the safest route but kind of overkill for a $12 dollar book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderturtle Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ride the Tiger said: Sig confirmation as noted is the safest route but kind of overkill for a $12 dollar book. also sig confirmation adds up especially if its for $12 books. as a seller I might just take the bullet and refund the customer,knowing that its the cost of business and also not worth it to have sig confirmation for such a low amount; applying the risk/reward angle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadGenius Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Postal insurance would be useless in this situation. According to tracking, the item was delivered. Case closed. Insurance would not pay out despite the claims that the buyer never received it. Seller can't be responsible for this one. All the buyer can do is discuss the situation with USPS. They won't do anything about it, but the problem is between the buyer and USPS, not the buyer and the seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledgehammer Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 I would wait until 30 days had passed, and then send the seller a nice message. Did the seller offer you an option besides media and you decided not to? I have seen cases where there is a history of buried in positive feedback for buyers, there is feedback that notes "buyer says he didn't get book, tracking shows he did." It's rough when many people make a habit of this. In 16 years, I've had one thing not arrive. My guess was that they did something to the address that got past a usps clerk, so that it was returned. Tracking never showed it delivered. Of course, it could also be that media mail just sucks. If it happens again, give up on anything that you don't have to sign for. I'm lucky, usps, fed ex and ups leave things on my porch that I should be signing for. At least......so far. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingrayiii Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 I work for the USPS, go back to them and have them check the GPS as where they scanned it at. They should know where it was scanned and that could be your ticket to a refund if it was scanned in the wrong area. They also take a photo of the scan as it is being scanned in office before going out to the street if they have the new scanning machine. This will show the address and if it is correct and was delivered to the wrong area you might be able to get a refund. divad and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadGenius Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 12 hours ago, Stingrayiii said: I work for the USPS, go back to them and have them check the GPS as where they scanned it at. They should know where it was scanned and that could be your ticket to a refund if it was scanned in the wrong area. They also take a photo of the scan as it is being scanned in office before going out to the street if they have the new scanning machine. This will show the address and if it is correct and was delivered to the wrong area you might be able to get a refund. Who would be providing the refund if USPS determines it was scanned and delivered to the wrong area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledgehammer Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 On 4/21/2019 at 1:08 AM, Stingrayiii said: I work for the USPS, go back to them and have them check the GPS as where they scanned it at. They should know where it was scanned and that could be your ticket to a refund if it was scanned in the wrong area. They also take a photo of the scan as it is being scanned in office before going out to the street if they have the new scanning machine. This will show the address and if it is correct and was delivered to the wrong area you might be able to get a refund. They do this for media mail? Sounds profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I like pie Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 It's absolutely the seller's responsibility until the buyer receives the item. I had a similar thing happen to me but luckily the tracking clearly showed it was delivered to a business and not a residential location. Seller just responded, "Not my fault. It's delivered." Now, he didn't do anything wrong but it IS the cost of doing business. I filed an ebay claim and won. I wonder though, if the tracking showed it was delivered to a residential area, would ebay/paypal still side with the buyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadGenius Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 hours ago, I like pie said: It's absolutely the seller's responsibility until the buyer receives the item. I had a similar thing happen to me but luckily the tracking clearly showed it was delivered to a business and not a residential location. Seller just responded, "Not my fault. It's delivered." Now, he didn't do anything wrong but it IS the cost of doing business. I filed an ebay claim and won. I wonder though, if the tracking showed it was delivered to a residential area, would ebay/paypal still side with the buyer? I wonder if the seller actually had to come out of pocket for the refund on that one. Doesn't eBay's "Seller Protection" cover the seller if the item was delivered? Sellers being on the hook for items showing as delivered but not "received" by the buyer is a very slippery slope. My opinion is the seller shouldn't be responsible. If they are, the system can and will be abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I like pie Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 53 minutes ago, MadGenius said: I wonder if the seller actually had to come out of pocket for the refund on that one. Doesn't eBay's "Seller Protection" cover the seller if the item was delivered? Sellers being on the hook for items showing as delivered but not "received" by the buyer is a very slippery slope. My opinion is the seller shouldn't be responsible. If they are, the system can and will be abused. I would imagine the seller could contact ebay, since it was an obvious usps mix up. I agree though that it's a slippery slope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Jack Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 7 hours ago, I like pie said: It's absolutely the seller's responsibility until the buyer receives the item. I had a similar thing happen to me but luckily the tracking clearly showed it was delivered to a business and not a residential location. Seller just responded, "Not my fault. It's delivered." Now, he didn't do anything wrong but it IS the cost of doing business. I filed an ebay claim and won. I wonder though, if the tracking showed it was delivered to a residential area, would ebay/paypal still side with the buyer? eBay and PayPal are very "interesting" on stuff like this and I think a lot of it has to do with dollar amount involved (I used to work disputes for a major credit card company and anything disputed under a certain amount was just refunded to the customer without filing a dispute with the merchant). An example of this happened to a friend of mine who sold a 2009 era TomTom GPS to an overseas buyer (shipping from America). The buyer received the item and claimed it was broken. My friend advised him to return the item for a full refund, and actually expected to get a different version of the GPS back as part of a scam. It was actually worse than that. My friend received a medium sized padded envelope with nothing inside (the GPS and accessories couldn't have fit in there, so it was not lost in the mail) AND a tracking label was on the outside of the envelope. The buyer filed a claim and eBay sided with the buyer since tracking showed delivered. So, my friend called foul and sent eBay a picture showing was sent to him and eBay's position was "the tracking shows it was delivered, and you obviously received what he sent you." So, the buyer was reimbursed from my friend's PayPal account. The kicker is, my friend was also reimbursed for the loss, shipping, AND the eBay seller's fees. Not sure what the final reasoning was for all of that, how eBay/PayPal made a decision, or if the amount ($55.00) was just small enough for them to write off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingrayiii Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 12 hours ago, sledgehammer said: They do this for media mail? Sounds profitable. If it has a bar code it has to be scanned into the system no matter what class of mail. When arrival at unit (the local post office) the scanner tells the clerks what rt it goes to, so it can be sorted to the correct route. The scanner takes a photo automactically of all parcels with a bar code when scanned. The portable scanners that the carriers use has a GPS in it to show where the parcel was scanned. It's just what is coming down the pike. The Lions Den and sledgehammer 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
